Mid-late 90's RJ pay?

[OPECJet]

How eloquent, you are truly a credit to the profession.

Sig would have an incredibly bright future in television if he wasn't so damn ugly. I still wonder why he allows his brain to bake and lose cells in a Dash 8.:laugh:

 

[waka]

Okay, Einstein. Clearly I have to hold your hand through this, because you've made your case explicitly clear. Sadly, you've defended yourself brilliantly- using the argument that you're a moron and folks in the know should have protected you.

Who is lauging? Management. You think the fellas you suggest I slap in the janglies give a rat's arse? You pathetic moron...

Wait. Since you clearly have an entire pair of firing neurons, let me
plant a better question in your logic addled pisspot.

Here ya go! What would I be making, in 1995 dollars, of I was paid 21,000 dollars today? Better yet, reverse it. See what 21k spends like today?

I waste calories typing here. You're clearly too damned stupid to
get the fact that the map you are TOTALLY BEING AWESOME to make is cut off by your existence.

Enjoy.

The profession weeps for you. Ya moron.

Sig, Your writing style is kind of funny. That said, you're an a$$hole. (maybe I am one too for think that you're funny)

Anyway, you probably get your rocks off by engaging in mindlessly misplaced insults. A guy asked a simple question and you pulled out one huge non sequitur by misapplication of your knowledge of airline history.

In other words, you're being dumb. Don't be dumb.

Get out of the house every once in a while.....it'll broaden your horizons.

 

[414Flyer]

And the decisions made by mainline pilots to turn their noses up at RJs had nothing to do with it, right? Go find out which pilot group was first to do that and kick them in the collective nuts for being that dumb...

And then those same pilot groups who gave away those aircraft (size issues???) and approved alter ego operations, then get mad at pilots who get hired at those alter ego operations for taking their jobs.

Even turboprops flown by airlines like Frontier, or Hughes Airwest probably paid better in the 1970s in raw dollars (without inflating the 70s pay to compare to present) than turboprops pay today.

 

[Draginass]

How eloquent, you are truly a credit to the profession.

It's not a profession. It's a job. Sort of like getting picked up at the day labor exchange down on skid row.

 

[regionaltard]

I hate to try to get this thing back on track, but somebody out there must have a copy of the "first" RJ payscales, as well as the scales for the smaller mainline jets of that era.

 

[FCNelson]

To answer the original purpose of this thread, the March 1, 1997 ACA pilot contract had the following rates for 50-seat RJs

Year CA/FO
1 $45.70/$27.88
3 $48.57/$29.63
5 $51.62/$31.49
10 $60.11/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)
15 $70.00/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)

In 1997, it took 10+ years of company seniority to be a CRJ CA at ACA. Most of the guys who flew it initially came to ACA from WestAir, or Air Wisconsin, as some Air Willy pilots were merged into ACA in the early 1990s. Some of these guys were originally from Mississippi Valley Airlines and most had DOHs from the mid 1980s.

The FOs typically had 3-5 years of company seniority. Most could have held J32 Captain, but the quality of life on the CRJ was much much better, what with long legs (JAX, BTV, RSW, PWM), APU, FA, etc...

CRJ FO pay was slightly below J32 Capt pay, but they more than made up for that with fat block and less workdays per month.

Additionally on April 1, 1997, all ACA pilots received a lump sum payment equalling 2.1% of their 1996 pay. On Feb 1, 1998, all ACA pilots were scheduled to receive a lump sum payment equalling 1% of their 1997 earnings. These payments were considered a "signing bonus" for the 1997 pilot contract.

Here are CRJ CA/FO pay rates effective 1 Sept, 1999

Year CA/FO
1 $48.96/$29.28
3 $52.04/$31.12
5 $55.31/$33.07
10 $64.41/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)
15 $75.00/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)

In early 2001, ACA pilots agreed on a contract that would pay 18 year CRJ CA's $100/hr.

However, very interesting to note that ACA pay rates from the mid-1990s compare FAVORABLY with 50 seat pay rates of today!

FCN

 

[dojetdriver]

To answer the original purpose of this thread, the March 1, 1997 ACA pilot contract had the following rates for 50-seat RJs

Year CA/FO
1 $45.70/$27.88
3 $48.57/$29.63
5 $51.62/$31.49
10 $60.11/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)
15 $70.00/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)

In 1997, it took 10+ years of company seniority to be a CRJ CA at ACA. Most of the guys who flew it initially came to ACA from WestAir, or Air Wisconsin, as some Air Willy pilots were merged into ACA in the early 1990s. Some of these guys were originally from Mississippi Valley Airlines and most had DOHs from the mid 1980s.

The FOs typically had 3-5 years of company seniority. Most could have held J32 Captain, but the quality of life on the CRJ was much much better, what with long legs (JAX, BTV, RSW, PWM), APU, FA, etc...

CRJ FO pay was slightly below J32 Capt pay, but they more than made up for that with fat block and less workdays per month.

Additionally on April 1, 1997, all ACA pilots received a lump sum payment equalling 2.1% of their 1996 pay. On Feb 1, 1998, all ACA pilots were scheduled to receive a lump sum payment equalling 1% of their 1997 earnings. These payments were considered a "signing bonus" for the 1997 pilot contract.

Here are CRJ CA/FO pay rates effective 1 Sept, 1999

Year CA/FO
1 $48.96/$29.28
3 $52.04/$31.12
5 $55.31/$33.07
10 $64.41/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)
15 $75.00/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)

In early 2001, ACA pilots agreed on a contract that would pay 18 year CRJ CA's $100/hr.

However, very interesting to note that ACA pay rates from the mid-1990s compare FAVORABLY with 50 seat pay rates of today!

FCN

Dang man, I'm glad you had the numbers. For some reason, I can't find my copy of the contract we had before contract 01.

We had the first "regional" CBA to see 100/hr for 50 CA. In 2005, had I been on 5th year CRJ pay, I'd be pulling 40.33/hr. Sadly, at my current job with an "industry leading" CBA, I was making 40.04.

If I was on 6th year CA rate at ACA in 2005 (not possible, just using an example), I'd be at 69.54. My current "industry leading" rate at year 5 is 71.21.

If one does the COL/inflation numbers, it's pretty sad to see how even the current higher paying companies still pay crap.

Please don't get me started on work rules. The ones I had there, even after our concession are better than my current.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Look to corporate, fractional, or a decent 91 gig...QOL is generally 10X better, pay is better, fly less and make more...a novel idea.. I was hesitant at first too, but it was well worth it. Even 3 companies later.

Living in an airport eating airport food all day on a crappy budget is no way to live. Atleast the mainline guys can afford a nice sit down at a Chili's every day.

 

[FCNelson]

It is crushing to think how RJ pay has flatlined since then mid-1990s.

The only way ALPA is ever going to fix this mess is to get ALL the RJ operators (even the non-ALPA ones) in a room, throw away the key, and basically say nobody is leaving until we set a floor for RJ pay and from here we work upwards.

If some airline wants to promise growth for pay and work rule cuts, well tough luck. Move your 50/70/90 seaters to xxx brand. We're prepared to shut down the house. Its not like ALPA members haven't already been affected adversely by this tactic, such as Comair or SkyWest

Only from there can we work forward.

Unfortunately the above scenario is likely a pie-in-the-sky one, as pilots are notoriously short-sighted. However the more people accept the reality that you are going to be at the regional level for a lot longer than you thought, the more leverage we can hopefully get.

 

[414Flyer]

I have been trying to look around for pay scales on RJ sized aircraft, before those were places at low cost alter ego operations. No luck yet, but pretty sure it was higher 30 years ago than what those kind of aircraft pay today.

And actually, one of the first RJ aircraft was the DC-9.

 

[pipejockey]

However the more people accept the reality that you are going to be at the regional level for a lot longer than you thought, the more leverage we can hopefully get.

Not only will people be at the regional level for a lot longer than they thought, but they will be at the regional level FOR THE REST OF THEIR WORKING CAREERS!! Why these kids can't get that through their thick skulls is beyond me! If I had all the information available today but over 10 years ago, I would have actually made something of myself in a viable career. Do the math people. 53% of the flights in our skies at this very moment are being flown by pilots on a regional payscale. Unless you get hired by 23 at a regional, you are going to be hard pressed to make it to a major before 40 years of age. Ask any Comair, Eagle, Horizon pilot of this fact. But all these newbies think THEY will be the ones that make it to mainline and can actually get to the left seat by 50 years of age at mainline.

 

[pipejockey]

I'll give a real answer. In 1995, I turned down an offer from Great Lakes to fly the EMB-120 for $12,000 a year. Of course, in order to get this great pay they required new hires to pay $11,500 to the Comair Aviation Academy for training costs.

First year net income: Five Hundred Dollars.

And in those days you spent 3 years at Lakes and got the PIC needed for a job at mainline. Now you rot at the regionals for decades. Then you die! Oh the life of a modern day airline pilot.

 

[say again]

Not only will people be at the regional level for a lot longer than they thought, but they will be at the regional level FOR THE REST OF THEIR WORKING CAREERS!! Why these kids can't get that through their thick skulls is beyond me! If I had all the information available today but over 10 years ago, I would have actually made something of myself in a viable career. Do the math people. 53% of the flights in our skies at this very moment are being flown by pilots on a regional payscale. Unless you get hired by 23 at a regional, you are going to be hard pressed to make it to a major before 40 years of age. Ask any Comair, Eagle, Horizon pilot of this fact. But all these newbies think THEY will be the ones that make it to mainline and can actually get to the left seat by 50 years of age at mainline.

Reality sucks, and sadly its true. One of many reasons I went the corporate route after my ACA furlough.

 

[CRJFlyer]

It is crushing to think how RJ pay has flatlined since then mid-1990s.

The only way ALPA is ever going to fix this mess is to get ALL the RJ operators (even the non-ALPA ones) in a room, throw away the key, and basically say nobody is leaving until we set a floor for RJ pay and from here we work upwards.

The floor has been set...right around $21.00/hr give or take a few cents....FO pay tops out around $43.00/hr....Cpt. pay rates are are nearly identical also......

The problem I see is regional pilots bicker at each other over each other's contracts, unfortunately you all are bent out of shape of a buck or two per year difference....

To really have any chance at a better QOL/career there needs to be drastic changes in the rates... Instead of shooting for just above the industry leader, or industry average. Somehow there needs to be a push way above those numbers. It will simply take an eternity a few dollars at a time.

How to do this without losing the mainline contract, or losing an RFP is anyones guess. "Locking each other in a room" would be great except I see whoever goes out on the limb first will become nothing more than a martyr..... Too many union contracts come up at different times. Whoever's comes up first will have to be the one to make the push upward...And then pray like hell the rest will continue to follow.... :laugh:

With the competition to "win" flying between regionals and their respective pilot groups, it becomes nearly impossible to have 100% solidarity. Everyone wants their airline to grow, but to do this they have to be the "go to" carrier. And to be the "go to" carrier in the regional world, management has to present a proposal to a major that shows how cheap they can be. And we all know how management gets pilots to work cheaper. SJS, future upgrade's, etc.....

Unfortunately I don't see the regional pay to ever greatly increase. The best anyone getting into the industry can do is look at the payrates 10-15 years out and decide if you can live on that wage long term, with family, bills, mortgage etc... Unfortunately most young guys at the 23 yr. old point don't see that far ahead. It's all about saying they're a pilot, trying to impress girls and living in an apartment with 2-3 other guys.....At some point the reality of growing up and having a family has to sink in.. That's when they start to realize the dire straits they're in concerning the crappy wages and non-exhistant mainline jobs.

Just my opinion....

 

[CptOver]

To answer the original purpose of this thread, the March 1, 1997 ACA pilot contract had the following rates for 50-seat RJs

Year CA/FO
1 $45.70/$27.88
3 $48.57/$29.63
5 $51.62/$31.49
10 $60.11/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)
15 $70.00/$34.50 (FO pay tops out in year 8)

In 1997, it took 10+ years of company seniority to be a CRJ CA at ACA. Most of the guys who flew it initially came to ACA from WestAir, or Air Wisconsin, as some Air Willy pilots were merged into ACA in the early 1990s. Some of these guys were originally from Mississippi Valley Airlines and most had DOHs from the mid 1980s.

The FOs typically had 3-5 years of company seniority. Most could have held J32 Captain, but the quality of life on the CRJ was much much better, what with long legs (JAX, BTV, RSW, PWM), APU, FA, etc...

CRJ FO pay was slightly below J32 Capt pay, but they more than made up for that with fat block and less workdays per month.

Additionally on April 1, 1997, all ACA pilots received a lump sum payment equalling 2.1% of their 1996 pay. On Feb 1, 1998, all ACA pilots were scheduled to receive a lump sum payment equalling 1% of their 1997 earnings. These payments were considered a "signing bonus" for the 1997 pilot contract.

Here are CRJ CA/FO pay rates effective 1 Sept, 1999

Year CA/FO
1 $48.96/$29.28
3 $52.04/$31.12
5 $55.31/$33.07
10 $64.41/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)
15 $75.00/$36.23 (FO pay tops out at year 8)

In early 2001, ACA pilots agreed on a contract that would pay 18 year CRJ CA's $100/hr.

However, very interesting to note that ACA pay rates from the mid-1990s compare FAVORABLY with 50 seat pay rates of today!

FCN

You forgot that it was a pay for training outfit (PFT), but then again so was Continental Express (now ExpressJet), and Comair.