Mexico controller weirdness.

scubabri

Junior Mint
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
550
Total Time
4200
Coming into Toluca this morning, the approach controller cleared us for the VOR DME 2 15 and the ILS DME 15. When I responded that we were cleared for the ILS, he repeated the clearance for the VOR and the ILS.

Ok, this confused both of us, so we proceeded to intercept the ILS.

So for those of you in the know, was he clearing us for either approach and something just got lost in the translation, or did I miss something.

The ILS commences fromt eh PTJ VOR on the 123 rad to intercept the final appoach course, so I thought maybe he was trying to tell us something to do with that.

Ideas anyone?

sb
 

con-pilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Posts
13,296
Total Time
21,000
Outside the United States it is very common to be issued a non-precision procedure to place the aircraft in position for ILS approach.



Such as an NDB or VOR that will place you on an intercept radial for the ILS. You need to study up on ICAO rules and procedures.
 

satpak77

Marriott Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Posts
3,015
Total Time
5000+
scubabri said:
Coming into Toluca this morning, the approach controller cleared us for the VOR DME 2 15 and the ILS DME 15. When I responded that we were cleared for the ILS, he repeated the clearance for the VOR and the ILS.

Ok, this confused both of us, so we proceeded to intercept the ILS.

So for those of you in the know, was he clearing us for either approach and something just got lost in the translation, or did I miss something.

The ILS commences fromt eh PTJ VOR on the 123 rad to intercept the final appoach course, so I thought maybe he was trying to tell us something to do with that.

Ideas anyone?

sb
At MMTO they clear you for the VOR DME 2, ("to the" --> no spoken but meant) ILS 15 Approach, meaning PTJ is the IAF and you track the 123 outbound, and pick up the localizor course and track it inbound.

If coming from the other direction (Acapulco), they will clear you for the VOR DME 1 ("to the") ILS 15, which means you will hit the TLC VOR, track the 312 outbound (cant remember), then at 10 DME, make a right turn and pick up the localizor.

any MMTO questions let me know, I fly there about 3 times a week

** be advised some non-precision approaches in South America, with no radar contact, have NO IAF displayed on the chart. Its up to you to make a safe start on the approach.

little diff than the states
 

Wankel7

It's a slippery slope...
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
Posts
1,487
Total Time
6100
Since so many mexican airports have the VOR on the field...I would think every VOR approach would never have an IAF since the vor is on the field...

Same in the states when the navaid is on the field.
 

scubabri

Junior Mint
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
550
Total Time
4200
now that went back and looked at the approach, it makes sense to me, it just threw me when he cleared us for the vor dme and the ils, that wont happen again.

in guadalajara now thanks for the clarification.

ps where can i get a copy of the icao procedures
 

Raskal

big member, little pay
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Posts
926
Total Time
*sigh*
What satpak said...confused the hell out of me the first time too, but as you go to more mex stuff just always expect to start at the VOR on the non-precision for a turn to the ils. It's a nice way to keep you out of the mountains while out of radar contact.

PS-Where'd you stay in toluca? Last time we did the Crowne Plaza, not bad. Before we were hitting the Del something-or-other...not great.
 

GravityHater

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
1,168
Total Time
3000
Since so many mexican airports have the VOR on the field...I would think every VOR approach would never have an IAF since the vor is on the field...Same in the states when the navaid is on the field.
Not a confrontation, but it looks like I could do with some educumination about approaches lacking an IAF...???
 
Joined
May 12, 2005
Posts
510
Total Time
.
.

Always fly the full approach in MX - never accept RV to an approach fix in IMC.


.
 

Thedude

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Posts
1,277
Total Time
8000+
Doug Parker said:
.

Always fly the full approach in MX - never accept RV to an approach fix in IMC.


.
Well that is not such a good idea...esp if you are going into popular areas such as CUN or PVR. A little common sense and knowing where you are in realtion to the approach and the field will go a long way down in Mexico. Wait till the day comes and you are"cleared for the appraoach" and you dont know which one they are talking about and you almost over the field. Elbows and a$$holes.
 

ERfly

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Posts
767
Total Time
8100
Doug Parker said:
.

Always fly the full approach in MX - never accept RV to an approach fix in IMC.


.
I disagree. I fly down there quite a bit and I've gotten vectors in a lot of places. They do a pretty good job, except in MTY where they gave my an 85 degree intercept to the final. The ERJ doesn't like that. They're pretty compitent down there. Just always know where you are.

Also, you don't have to talk to the controllers like they're retarded, i.e. "Buenas Dias, Mooooooooonterrrrrrrrey Ceeeeeennnnntttter. Jetttttliiiiiiink Twwwwwwo Threeeee Fourrrrrr Fiiiiiiiive wiiiiiith youuuuu attttt Fliiiiight Levelllll Threeeeeee Fiveeee Zerooooooooooo." They're Spanish not stupid.
 

Wasted

u can do it too w kandoo
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Posts
228
Total Time
4000
ERfly said:
I disagree. I fly down there quite a bit and I've gotten vectors in a lot of places. They do a pretty good job, except in MTY where they gave my an 85 degree intercept to the final. The ERJ doesn't like that. They're pretty compitent down there. Just always know where you are.

Also, you don't have to talk to the controllers like they're retarded, i.e. "Buenas Dias, Mooooooooonterrrrrrrrey Ceeeeeennnnntttter. Jetttttliiiiiiink Twwwwwwo Threeeee Fourrrrrr Fiiiiiiiive wiiiiiith youuuuu attttt Fliiiiight Levelllll Threeeeeee Fiveeee Zerooooooooooo." They're Spanish not stupid.
Yeah, but I still wouldn't eat nuthin nor drink the water down there.
 

satpak77

Marriott Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Posts
3,015
Total Time
5000+
Doug Parker said:
.

Always fly the full approach in MX - never accept RV to an approach fix in IMC.
.

thats not true (it is in Peru however...). KLM, Iberia, AA, UAL, etc etc, all flying into Mexico City and surrounding airspace, every day, with no issues. I would trust Radar Vectors but like anywhere else, monitor your terrain and keep an eye on the Navaids for SA

Even Colombia is pretty darn good these days, radar contact in most areas and controllers fairly sharp
 

Wankel7

It's a slippery slope...
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
Posts
1,487
Total Time
6100
ERfly said:
I disagree. I fly down there quite a bit and I've gotten vectors in a lot of places. They do a pretty good job, except in MTY where they gave my an 85 degree intercept to the final. The ERJ doesn't like that. They're pretty compitent down there. Just always know where you are.

Also, you don't have to talk to the controllers like they're retarded, i.e. "Buenas Dias, Mooooooooonterrrrrrrrey Ceeeeeennnnntttter. Jetttttliiiiiiink Twwwwwwo Threeeee Fourrrrrr Fiiiiiiiive wiiiiiith youuuuu attttt Fliiiiight Levelllll Threeeeeee Fiveeee Zerooooooooooo." They're Spanish not stupid.
Rooyyer ;)

I have flown around Mexico abit and been in to Pubelo, Leon , Mexico city, Montery, Tuloca, and many other places the cargo folks go.

Mexico is SOOOOOO cool as far as the mountains and the land goes. I simply had no idea how big the mountains are down there. I really wish I could just go exploring in the mountains. Prob a good way to die...but anyways.

I love the volcanos in Pueblo...

We got to over night in Leon and it was really cool....the interior is so much nicer than the donkey towns...i mean border towns:)

Wanked
 
Last edited:
Top