Mesaba to get 900's and Q's For DELTA!!!

[SEVEN]

The last thing we want at Mesaba is to have our pilot group lumped in with some of those other regional carriers.

Too late... mesa ring a bell?



Nice try SEVEN, I've had too many of your little 'better than everyone else' punks in my jumpseat to know better.

Welcome back. It's been a while. Are you sure you want to enter the lion's den?
Even though your user name is out of date, you should not change it. The way things are going at your carrier, you'll be back in the right seat swinging gear in no time.

:uzi: foforever:smash:

 

[EmeliaE]

There are sure some tools out there! I think the saabs are the best thing for Mesaba, it keeps those young punks from wanting to come to our airline-the ones that interview anyways, are sure to screw up and show their true self at least once to those in HR and our pilots who interview! I think when we were hiring a while back-a few months ago and were forced to hire some idiots (yes, those 900 primadonna's who were "hand picked" for their above average skill and having the knowledge to wear their epilettes backwards) we learned our lessons about hiring idiots. I heard a story of a line check airman who confronted one of the 900 FO's who was wearing his the wrong way. the fo said he wore them that way because he was on the 900, the LCA said he heard it was for not being able to pass his IOE without over a 100 hours of being spoonfed how to fly

You sure sound to like one of those 7-year Saab FOs who either couldn’t make it through the 900 upgrade training and was sent back to being an FO on Saab, or opted to stay on the Saab as a captain when you could easily hold 900 captain (of course after hearing about how tough some of you - seven-year Saab FO hotshots - found the 900 upgrade training was). I have flown with 3 former Saab Hotshots/turboprops/know-it-alls and I have to use your own quote: “…forced to hire some idiots.” Remember, the ‘release from freeze’ clause so XJ can get 900 captains whether they are ready or not?

You talk about a new-hire 900 pilot, I talk about a 7-year Saab FO who just upgraded and you just wonder. LCAs let them lose on the line just as they did a brand new FO with whom you feel so much jealousy. I have been on the 900 for a while and have never heard any LCA or any captain ever mentioning about backwards ‘epaulettes’, but you sure found out about it somehow.

You talk about long IOE so I sure believe you know how long some the hotshot Saab FOs took on the 900 upgrade IOE. How about the three who were sent back to Saab FO position. Why not name them here. You sure know them, don’t ya? When you do that, also post the name of brand new, hotshot, 900 shell-shocked FOs who failed IOE. You can’t, because there are NONE! [But it doesn’t mean at all that there won’t be any in future].

Now let’s talk about attitudes of new hires and those who have been at any given airline for some time. What dictates how one behaves does not have much do with whether they fly a piston, twin piston, turboprop, jet; whether they are new-hire or a seasoned captain; whether they are young or old; whether they fly a 747 for a major Int’l airline or a 900 FO for Mesaba; it depends on their ‘Personality’ and ‘Attitude’. No one pilot group is better or worst than the other. The only way you can ever prove that you were, as s new hire, and are now, better than these new hires is to provide a detailed video, voice-recording, and extensive paperwork of your own hiring, training, and IOE and subsequent years of flying the Saab for XJ. Believe me that the only way you guys can prove you were and are better then the new hires of today. We have no way of knowing how long you took on the IOE and how many times you failed your oral/check rides and PCs. No way!

So, I suggest that you let it go and accept everyone as your new colleague knowing full well that today’s new hires are just as good (or bad) as the ones that were hired at any given time before. You talk about wearing an epaulette backwards, I talk about this 900 captain who doesn’t change his shirt on a four day trip and proudly tells everyone. You talk about attitudes of new hire, I talk about attitudes of seasoned 900 captains; you talk about new hires wearing iPods, I talk about NW747 captain seen by your truly at the gate waiting for Tokyo flight wearing an iPod; you talk about spiked hair, I talk about senior 900 captains who don’t shave or comb their hair and show up in shabby, un-ironed uniforms. The list goes on.

To be fair though, there are indeed new hires in our 900 program that are downright arrogant and there are arrogant, stuck-up seasoned pilots on the 900/200/Saab along with nice, polite, professional, competent, knowledgeable, skilled new hire pilots and old captains.

Personally, you seem to ‘rant’ too much (pardon the redundancy) about the new hires. Next time, when you’re in the crew room, (Mesaba that is) just look around post some informative, unbiased observations about new/old/jet/prop pilots. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you’re quite incapable of doing so and that assumption is purely based on your behavior on this board (Personality + Attitude = Behavior).

 

[Mel Sharples]

You sure sound to like one of those 7-year Saab FOs who either couldn’t make it through the 900 upgrade training and was sent back to being an FO on Saab...

Good freaking Lord... Who are you?

There is more unadulterated pure B.S. in this one post than the rest of F.I. combined (and that is saying something).

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about so just clamp it shut before you make a bigger idiot of yourself. Just because you haven't seen some of this stuff doesn't mean it isn't happening. We have a little pride here, so we don't broadcast when people have issues or struggle in training. Sorry you aren't "in the know" on everything.

Just shut up already.

 

[SEVEN]

You sure sound to like one of those 7-year Saab FOs who either couldn’t make it through the 900 upgrade training and was sent back to being an FO on Saab, or opted to stay on the Saab as a captain when you could easily hold 900 captain (of course after hearing about how tough some of you - seven-year Saab FO hotshots - found the 900 upgrade training was). I have flown with 3 former Saab Hotshots/turboprops/know-it-alls and I have to use your own quote: “…forced to hire some idiots.” Remember, the ‘release from freeze’ clause so XJ can get 900 captains whether they are ready or not?

You talk about a new-hire 900 pilot, I talk about a 7-year Saab FO who just upgraded and you just wonder. LCAs let them lose on the line just as they did a brand new FO with whom you feel so much jealousy. I have been on the 900 for a while and have never heard any LCA or any captain ever mentioning about backwards ‘epaulettes’, but you sure found out about it somehow.

You talk about long IOE so I sure believe you know how long some the hotshot Saab FOs took on the 900 upgrade IOE. How about the three who were sent back to Saab FO position. Why not name them here. You sure know them, don’t ya? When you do that, also post the name of brand new, hotshot, 900 shell-shocked FOs who failed IOE. You can’t, because there are NONE! [But it doesn’t mean at all that there won’t be any in future].

Now let’s talk about attitudes of new hires and those who have been at any given airline for some time. What dictates how one behaves does not have much do with whether they fly a piston, twin piston, turboprop, jet; whether they are new-hire or a seasoned captain; whether they are young or old; whether they fly a 747 for a major Int’l airline or a 900 FO for Mesaba; it depends on their ‘Personality’ and ‘Attitude’. No one pilot group is better or worst than the other. The only way you can ever prove that you were, as s new hire, and are now, better than these new hires is to provide a detailed video, voice-recording, and extensive paperwork of your own hiring, training, and IOE and subsequent years of flying the Saab for XJ. Believe me that the only way you guys can prove you were and are better then the new hires of today. We have no way of knowing how long you took on the IOE and how many times you failed your oral/check rides and PCs. No way!

So, I suggest that you let it go and accept everyone as your new colleague knowing full well that today’s new hires are just as good (or bad) as the ones that were hired at any given time before. You talk about wearing an epaulette backwards, I talk about this 900 captain who doesn’t change his shirt on a four day trip and proudly tells everyone. You talk about attitudes of new hire, I talk about attitudes of seasoned 900 captains; you talk about new hires wearing iPods, I talk about NW747 captain seen by your truly at the gate waiting for Tokyo flight wearing an iPod; you talk about spiked hair, I talk about senior 900 captains who don’t shave or comb their hair and show up in shabby, un-ironed uniforms. The list goes on.

To be fair though, there are indeed new hires in our 900 program that are downright arrogant and there are arrogant, stuck-up seasoned pilots on the 900/200/Saab along with nice, polite, professional, competent, knowledgeable, skilled new hire pilots and old captains.

Personally, you seem to ‘rant’ too much (pardon the redundancy) about the new hires. Next time, when you’re in the crew room, (Mesaba that is) just look around post some informative, unbiased observations about new/old/jet/prop pilots. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you’re quite incapable of doing so and that assumption is purely based on your behavior on this board (Personality + Attitude = Behavior).

I predict this thread will now be another 10 pages long.

 

[Limeyflyer]

20 pages

 

[whaleroast]

Next time, when you’re in the crew room, (Mesaba that is) just look around post some informative, unbiased observations about new/old/jet/prop pilots. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you’re quite incapable of doing so and that assumption is purely based on your behavior on this board (Personality + Attitude = Behavior).

This is why I don't "hang out" in the crewwroom. I don't need to waste my time observing what everyone else around me is doing or saying. Go read a book or something.
Speaking of crewrooms, I heard a new one opened up in Memphis.

 

[xjhawk]

I am honored by the amount of times i have been quoted-and I was just trying to bring us together-read some of my stuff- But emeliaE has her panties bunched up and cannot think stright-a 700 word rant and she says I rant? I fully admit to going on and on! Oh by the way, i love ipods, and no I am not a 7 year saab FO, but know pleanty, and they have their reasons. I also flew with those old 900/avro senior guys. Yes, some are a bit quirkie to say the least. I agree with E about its not where you have been and so on and so on-idiots are everywhere-but the story of the 900 FO's are so numerous, I must think there is some truth to the rumor. Oh, and by the way, I have been here since 03' so i am not who you think I am, i am a 200 captain who tries to make anytrip I fly a good experience for the FA and the FO (and passangers) If i am in a bad mood, i try not to show it, i might be quiet, thats it. if I meet someone with an ego the size of yours.....you sure seem defensive, I will not tolerate it, oh by the way, you are so entertaining, I wish I were on the 900, you would be fun to fly with. I mean that in a sincere way, i mean i love it when someone goes off, goes ballistic! I love it, and try to not take FI too seriously, some of us know each other in real life here, and laugh at whats said. I am trying to beat E's 700 word rant......Oh I will add one thing, i am not jealous, I have been here through the worst and love that some have the chance to have it good around here. Seriously, I do not live by the motto, If I were crapped on, so must everyone else! The FO's I have talked with that know they have never seen a bad schedule, they know they are lucky, and I am happy for them. Gosh darn it...I am done here. I will say it once again, lets all try to get along and thank your local union rep for doing a job which is a huge pain in the buttox! cheers!

 

[Terry Hunter]

You sure sound to like one of those 7-year Saab FOs who either couldn’t make it through the 900 upgrade training and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

You talk about blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

You talk about blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Now let’s talk about blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

So, I suggest blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

To be fair though, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Personally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

like pushing bamboo under my finger nails...

 

[Tarzan]

like pushing bamboo under my finger nails...

Dude! How much time did spend doing that?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Wow good to see someone is being productive with ready reserve/long airport appreciation breaks.....

 

[Flybet3]

Dude! How much time did spend doing that?

If you're smart you just do this...
blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then copy and paste!

 

[MrCoffee]

Mesaba Dash 8 FOs used to wear their epaulets backwards too. They were "hand picked" because of their age though. They were also the ones that refused to give up the old red dot wings for the belt buckle. Point is, there is always going to be "young punks" trying to make a statement. Let em have fun, they'll grow up eventually.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The Dash guys were nothing... yea they may have gone 300 kts but they never staggered their way to FL350 like the Avro guys. That ability required astronaut training....
(Extreme sarcasm for the extremely retarded)

 

[Snaab]

Here's a laugh for you Saab guys: I work at Colgan, have been Captain on both the Saab and the Q400. There's usually one guy a month that likes to put in his .02 about the equipment and seat requirements at our airline. These types are usually sooooo proud they're flying the big, bad, sophisticated Q400, like it's the Space Shuttle. (You know that I'm about to ask at this point....) Let's say Colgan offers you upgrade on the Saab in 12 months from now and they don't forsee a lot of Q upgrades, what would you do? The response usually begins by looking at me like I'm nuts, uttering a couple syllables, then catching themselves before they put the Saab down, knowing I've probably flown it. The Saab stamped some humilty into it's pilots and made them appreciate the flying and the airplane.

 

[willbob]

What the.....Paul Foley at Mesa!!!
CEO Update – October 1, 2008

Mesa Air Group Appoints New Chief Operating Officer

I am delighted to announce the appointment of Paul Foley as Chief Operating Officer Mesa Air Group. Paul brings to Mesa a wealth of operational and leadership experience from his years as CEO of Mesaba Holdings, the parent company of Mesaba Airlines. Having known Paul for many years, I am confident he is the ideal person to bring the needed skills, leadership and oversight to our operations at a time when Mike Lotz must remain focused on the restructure of our business. In these highly challenging and competitive times, Paul will be working very closely with our operational teams and airline partners to optimize our performance and strengthen and grow our partnerships. I encourage you to get to know Paul as he moves about the organization in the coming weeks and I invite you to email him and share your thoughts and ideas.

Prior to joining Mesa, Paul was, since September 1999, President and Chief Executive Officer of MAIR Holdings Inc., a member of its Board of Directors and of the Executive and Safety Committees. From September 1999 until October 2002 Paul also served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Mesaba Aviation.

Paul was previously employed as Vice President Operations at Atlas Air, a global cargo operator of 747 aircraft. Prior to that, he was Senior Vice President Operations at LSG/Sky Chefs. He also served as President of Continental Airlines’ Chelsea Catering Corporation.

Paul holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Cornell University and an MBA from the Edwin L. Cox Graduate School of Business at Southern Methodist University.

In welcoming Paul to Mesa, I would also like to acknowledge Mike Lotz for his considerable contribution to Mesa, especially during these recent very challenging months. Mike remains President and Chief Financial Officer Mesa Air Group. This continues to be a tough situation both at Mesa and throughout the industry. I remain confident however that working together we will see our way through these present difficulties.

Thank you Mike and a very warm welcome Paul.

Jonathan

Don't know if it's true ...but good luck Mesa

 

[WMUSIGPI]

R.I.P. Mesa......
My condolences to all there, Well except :uzi: JO and :uzi: PF

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Stickers

Hey Mesa guys,

I don't know exactly where they came from, but I'm sure you guys can get a fresh new batch of "What Does Paul Foley Do?" stickers for your flight cases. I assure you, you will need them. Have a good ride...

MM

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yeah what he said

 

[jeroom]

Why am I reading this?? Seriously!!

 

[Lyconit]

The BIG announcement is it's another Friday and no announcement!!!!!

It's coming out on tomorrow...or whenever they get to it after a lot of meetings in ATL. Hold your shorts on though, here it comes....

 

[Moustache]

Yea, But I bet you had your happy ending when you first saw it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a D0uche........bet you hear that a few times a day

 

[propjob27]

I was just directed to this thread by a bud who flys for Mesaba.

Reason being, I flatly refused to believe there were guys g a y enough to wear their epauletts backwards/upside down beause they "Fly the 9"

So can someone confirm? Are there actually FO's (and/or captains) on the -900 that think they get to wear their uniform backwards?!?! And are they promptly beaten senseless afterwards?

 

[SplitBar]

I haven't seen one yet. I think it's just urban legend. I highly doubt they would get away with it as the 900 Captains would be quick to set them straight. Nonetheless, I have added to my acceptance flow to look at my FO's eppelets

 

[propjob27]

Thanks for setting it straight. It did sound pretty hard to believe.

On the other hand...

I'm not lying when I tell you I've personally seen a captain here wearing a hat that said "MD-11 Capt" embroidered or stitched (didn't get close enough to tell) on the brim. And we aren't even required to wear hats at all!

I guess anythings possible with some of these clowns.

 

[CoATP]

That comes with the little pilot suit he get to wear at Halloween. My nephew has one (he's two) Really cute. I explain he needs to get a real job shen he growns up. Not like his bum uncle.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Sorry Mel

Good freaking Lord... Who are you?

There is more unadulterated pure B.S. in this one post than the rest of F.I. combined (and that is saying something).

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about so just clamp it shut before you make a bigger idiot of yourself. Just because you haven't seen some of this stuff doesn't mean it isn't happening. We have a little pride here, so we don't broadcast when people have issues or struggle in training. Sorry you aren't "in the know" on everything.

Just shut up already.

Sorry Mel,

A little "PRIDE". Are you kidding me? XJ is the proudest pilot group in North America, excluding Piedmont.

You have to admit that your pilot group put on a good show, back in the day. However, the show seems to be over.

Your pilot group's post seem a little pathetic lately.
I beleive XJ's darkest days of "industry respect" are ahead of them.

ASA and Comair don't "play". Neither does ATL. I will watch closely, as your new-hires arrive in ATL. We shall see how things come full circle for the XJ top-guns.

It must begin in INDOC. They must have some sorta UND/MSP ego building framework, that produces cheerleaders for XJ. They come outta INDOC feeling as if they are the industry leading regional carrier.

Anyway, I do respect some of your old post, but I think XJ has and will continue to slide down the "regional respect" hill. And then fall off the cliff. And of coarse, I will find some justice in this. I am bleeding from the shots XJ has taken. I look forward to my wounds healing.

Sincerly,

ALPA Brother

 

[CptMurf]

Sorry Mel,

A little "PRIDE". Are you kidding me? XJ is the proudest pilot group in North America, excluding Piedmont.

You have to admit that your pilot group put on a good show, back in the day. However, the show seems to be over.

Your pilot group's post seem a little pathetic lately.
I beleive XJ's darkest days of "industry respect" are ahead of them.

ASA and Comair don't "play". Neither does ATL. I will watch closely, as your new-hires arrive in ATL. We shall see how things come full circle for the XJ top-guns.

It must begin in INDOC. They must have some sorta UND/MSP ego building framework, that produces cheerleaders for XJ. They come outta INDOC feeling as if they are the industry leading regional carrier.

Anyway, I do respect some of your old post, but I think XJ has and will continue to slide down the "regional respect" hill. And then fall off the cliff. And of coarse, I will find some justice in this. I am bleeding from the shots XJ has taken. I look forward to my wounds healing.

Sincerly,

ALPA Brother

You do realize that you responded to a post from Sept.?

Also, XJ has been flying into KATL for years, through DTW and MEM, on the AVRO and CRJ900. And I seriously doubt the newhires from Comair, Eagle, ATA, ExpressJet, PSA, to name a few will have problems going there. The days of the 300 hour UND transition were shortlived and have long been over.

I'm sorry if you perceive XJ or their pilots as the catalyst to your "bleeding". We have definately taken our shots the last couple of years, but we don't "play" here either. Our work rules are intact, our pay is inline or exceeds all other DCI carriers (on the CA side, the FO side slightly different story due to our blended rate), and safety is a company culture mantra. We are cheaper right now, due to having all the contracts and leases streamlined during BK, and being wholly owned.

This DAL flying is XJ's first bid into the Delta system, I'm sure there will be growing pains, but Anderson announced XJ's continued future with DAL months ago, this should be no surprise. I feel and have felt you pain if your company is downsizing or furloughing, but turn that anger toward your own management and not toward your pilot brother. They are the ones that are manipulating or allowing the merger to come together as it is. Unfortunately, in a cyclical industry we are all going to feel our share of pain at one time or another.

Finally, unless you held off flying for any other regional, and plan on retiring from there, get off your "my airline is better than yours" attitude. We all sent out multiple applications, and would have accepted any one of them. The one that called first is who we accepted and based on that timing it could have been the greatest or worst choice. XJ for me was great for 2 years, then I got to experience 2 downgrades and 5 1/2 years on reserve, now it's great again. Better or worse that was my timing, not another pilots fault for going to their carrier which was growing.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

wow

You do realize that you responded to a post from Sept.?

Also, XJ has been flying into KATL for years, through DTW and MEM, on the AVRO and CRJ900. And I seriously doubt the newhires from Comair, Eagle, ATA, ExpressJet, PSA, to name a few will have problems going there. The days of the 300 hour UND transition were shortlived and have long been over.

I'm sorry if you perceive XJ or their pilots as the catalyst to your "bleeding". We have definately taken our shots the last couple of years, but we don't "play" here either. Our work rules are intact, our pay is inline or exceeds all other DCI carriers (on the CA side, the FO side slightly different story due to our blended rate), and safety is a company culture mantra. We are cheaper right now, due to having all the contracts and leases streamlined during BK, and being wholly owned.

This DAL flying is XJ's first bid into the Delta system, I'm sure there will be growing pains, but Anderson announced XJ's continued future with DAL months ago, this should be no surprise. I feel and have felt you pain if your company is downsizing or furloughing, but turn that anger toward your own management and not toward your pilot brother. They are the ones that are manipulating or allowing the merger to come together as it is. Unfortunately, in a cyclical industry we are all going to feel our share of pain at one time or another.

Finally, unless you held off flying for any other regional, and plan on retiring from there, get off your "my airline is better than yours" attitude. We all sent out multiple applications, and would have accepted any one of them. The one that called first is who we accepted and based on that timing it could have been the greatest or worst choice. XJ for me was great for 2 years, then I got to experience 2 downgrades and 5 1/2 years on reserve, now it's great again. Better or worse that was my timing, not another pilots fault for going to their carrier which was growing.

Great post. Well written. You are right. You win, again.
uke:

Happy Holidays

 

[xjhawk]

god I hope that was not sarcasim. The post was 100% right on. I am at XJ and I for one will not stand for someone putting another airline down and thinking they are better because they came to Xj and have never been on reserve or just plain old think they are hot $hit. We have a great group of union guys at our pro standards who are making some of our less professional pilots see the light. Most of us have seen the bad side of life at XJ, I for one have about 6 months of not being on reserve at this company. Seeing one furlough notice and two displacements. I know that other carriers are going through a tough time right now, we at XJ have been there. Do not blame us for our company winning bids that DELTA has put out on the open market. The whipsaw is an old NWA game and now apparently a Delta one.