Mesaba TA passes

[blade230]

Hey Mesaba guys,

I supported you. I would have supported you if you striked by NOT flying your routes. Even though according to ALPA, I would NOT have been held accountable if I did, as I am still on probation. I will continue to support you, because I believe as Airlinkers, we are all in this sh*tstorm together.

But just because some people view your TA differently than you do, why do you look for something as Pathetic as the PFT/gulfstream thing to come back with.

Not that PFT is great, but there are TONS of PFT outfits around, not just gulfpay. Any many of those so called "buy a jobers" would also have supported you in the event of a strike at the possible cost of their job, as many were on probation. You may dispise the idea of PFT, but TRY to show a little respect to the people who would have supported you. And some WERE from gulfstream.

Congrats on the min. 11 days off. Gotta say that would be nice.

 

[sf3boy]

Don't get me wrong, I will be on the picket line in MEM/MSP/DTW when it is 9E's turn to bat. I also remember though, 9E being PFT long before Gulfstream........thus I applied to XJ instead. And you can count me in the minority (33%) of the XJ pilot group. Go get them Pinnacle!!! I will carry a sign with pride with you in 2005, 2006, 2007. We all know how speedy NWA likes to wrap up contract talks.

 

[Anaconda]

sorry, but it's another regional lowering the bar. MESAba...

 

[skootertrash]

YOU ------ --------- ---- ------- ----.

-------------- LOOOSERS.

GO ---- ORNSTIENS --------


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Moderator

 

[mesaba2425]

It doesn't matter how the Mesaba pilots try to spin it, they didn't succeed in raising the bar. I think it pretty much stayed where it was or maybe just an inch or two lower.

I seem to remember Mesa pilots defending their position on their vote and a few Mesaba pilots bashing them. It looks this the shoe is on the other foot and doesn't fit very well.

I find it interesting how the pilots talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Face it, you guys blinked before management and they called your bluff. Look on the bright side - only 5 more years until you get your chance to "raise the bar".

 

[N813CA]

Wanderer

Nice try Dong. Comair has the lowest cost per seat mile of all DCI. So I don't really care what the cost reductions you do. ,Things have changed there will never be a MAJOR airline captain making $300,000 a year and only working 4 days a month, but why can't you say a FO at Comair is worth $40,000 a year and home 14 days off. You can still kiss my

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Time will Tell

Talking to some Mesaba pilots, many right off the bat were going to vote NO on this TA, yet it was their MEC on the Road Shows that talked it up big time to the point of passage. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the key negotiators/MEC members in the coming year. If some accept management positions or take the retro check and move on to another airline in the near future, then that's certainly some evidence that the pilot group was sold out. If not, then maybe this was truly the best offer they felt they could negotiate. Hopefully 2009/realistically 2011 will bring around bigger gains, start the countdown clock over.

 

[d.fitz]

Someone asked the new starting salary for an FO. It went from $17k to $21,600.


Wanderer:

and its not about "me,me,me" its about "us, us, us". By voting yes on this TA - by definition, you were doing exactly what you accuse others of doing!

If the "paying the dues" mindset does not change then neither will the salaries!

Do you know that an entry level RIVETER (no education required) at Boeing makes more money than an experienced FO or new captain.

The ALPA website says it all:

"We went into these negotiations with the slogan, "Our Profits, Our Jobs," at a time when our jobs and our growth opportunities were far from secure. This contract forces management to commit to use the profits that we helped generate to grow the airline using pilots on Mesaba's seniority list. We secured our futures and protected our careers with strong scope language that binds the holding company to our agreement."

 

[mesaba2425]

Do you know that an entry level RIVETER (no education required) at Boeing makes more money than an experienced FO or new captain.

That's because they have a stronger union than Mesaba that secured a better contract.

 

[EL10]

Raise or lower the bar?

The last three contracts for “express carries” to be singed are Chautauqua, Skyway, and Mesaba. How did the last of these three compare to the two previous contracts signed before them? They may not be the best or the worst contracts but these in order they occurred are the most current to be signed. Industry and economy conditions change but these contracts where signed in a relative parity of time. One carrier Chautauqua is in a growth phase. Second carrier’s parent was close to filing for bankruptcy. Third carrier Mesaba is closely aligned with a major that is stable and is in neither a growth nor shrinking state. Scope, pay, rigs, and retirement where the strike issues of Mesaba. Below are comparisons in those areas they felt most important. As you can see compared to the previous contracts singed right before there’s they held the line or surpassed it. First words are Comair, Air Wisconsin. But those are not passed in relative environment. Future or the pasts are not today. As a PCL pilot I of course would have liked more for our brothers and sisters. I feel most of the PCL pilots wanted to see XJ succeed just because they wanted to ride on the coat tails and not have to do the dirty work them self’s to get what they want. People like NEWSOUTH and Mesaba2425 are disgusting. Quite frankly im embarrassed to have to work with someone like NEWSOUTH. He does not represent an informed pilot. With PCL having FO s with four years seniority now the days of fast gains are gone. Which also is a good time to state that the GIA people did not PFT to PCL. As with anything you get what you negotiate for. Did United negotiate it self to bankruptcy? Did Mesa negotiate for growth? Can we compare United - Atlantic Coast – Mesa – Fedex - Cap Air all the same way? Did a Mesaba pilot take a step backwards for himself or a step forward? Are you as an outsider scared to be the one that has to take a huge step forward? Do you have your pilot group unified at your own property to take that leap? Each airline has its own Fee Per Departure, its own CASM, its own RASM, and bottom line income. Can Skyway pay out a 8 million dollar increase contract just as easy as Southwest can? Is an increase in Mesaba’s contract costs to the company of 8 million a year and 44 over the length of the deal not a gain? I’m not trying to promote or push their contract just telling some facts. I as a PCL pilot supported XJ before there negotiations, during, and now even after. This BULL of fighting amongst ourselves because a chart says .30 cents less for 8 months in a phantom aircraft is as silly as the game that NWA played with the Avros. You who lower yourselves to taking a dump on each other over something you are not evening willing to do for yourself is absolutely pathetic. Especially after having either for one asked the other for support or second you will be relying on the other for support soon. The contract is signed in. Its over the conversation of should or could have. If you’re up next to negotiate concentrate on doing what you need to so you can get what you want. Just like J.C. Lawson said “DON’T LOOK BACK”

Scope:
Chautauqua has got scope restrictions on parent, company, subsidiaries, and future subsidiaries.(Does not include Wexford)
Skyway has got scope restrictions on company, subsidiaries, and future
Mesaba has got scope on parent, company, subsidiaries, and future

Pay (Due to Skyway and Chautauqua not having any 30 seat turboprops or 70 seat jets the only scale all three have uncommon is 50 turbojet rates):
First Year FO:
Chautauqua 2004: $21.00; 2007: $22.95
Skyway 2004: $17.57; 2007: $19.45
Mesaba 2004: $23.08; 2007: $24.97

Five Year FO:
Chautauqua 2004: $33.50; 2007: $36.62
Skyway 2004: $26.19; 2007: $34.86
Mesaba 2004: $34.76; 2007: $36.87

Five Year CA:
Chautauqua 2004: $62.29; 2007: $66.99
Skyway 2004: $52.23; 2007: $61.17
Mesaba 2004: $61.15; 2007: $66.17

Ten Year CA:
Chautauqua 2004: $71.39; 2007: $78.03
Skyway 2004: $60.16; 2007: $70.91
Mesaba 2004: $73.02; 2007: $79.01

Pay Protection:
Chautauqua: Line guarantee if company meets performance goal (segment pay)
Skyway: Block or better
Mesaba: Line guarantee, Block or better

Rigs:
Chautauqua: None
Skyway: None
Mesaba: Min day 4 hours (look forward)

Min Day off
Chautauqua: Line 12; Reserve 11
Skyway: Line 10; Reserve 10: (2005 both go to 11)
Mesaba: Line 11; Reserve 11

Retirement:
Chautauqua: The Company will provide retirement benefits (i.e., 401(k)) to all pilots. A pilot whose longevity is six (6) years or less, the Company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first two and one-half percent (2.5%) contributed by the pilot. A pilot whose longevity is more than six (6) years and less than thirteen (13) years, the company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first four percent (4%) contributed by the pilot. A pilot whose longevity is thirteen (13) years or longer, the Company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first six percent (6%) contributed by the pilot.
Skyway: Beginning with the effective date of this Agreement, pilots will continue to participate in the Skyway Airlines, Inc., d/b/a Midwest Connect, 401(k) Plan (“the 401(k) Plan”), with a Company matching contribution of 2.5% of the pilot’s salary deferrals up to the first ten percent (10%) of compensation. The Company matching contributions will be made for each payroll period, with payment made to the plan within five (5) business days of each payday.
Mesaba:
Years of Service Company Match % Match Salary ReductionContributions Each Plan Year Up To
1 but less than 6 25% 6% of eligible earnings
6 but less than 11 50% 8% of eligible earnings
11 but less than 16 75% 9% of eligible earnings
16 but less than 20 100% 10% of eligible earnings
20 or more 125% 10% of eligible earnings