Mesaba TA passes

[NEWSOUTH]

Well....

Still can't pay their bills. Still on reserve. And will be for the next four years the way I got it figured. But, feel the need to brag about better scope than Mesa ( but it's not) and industry leading work rules ( but it's not) and retirement ( last I checked a 401k was still a 401K, Not Retirement) and pay that's.....will just let that speak for itself. Just the truth and only the truth. Deal with it Mesa Ba. Come back over.

 

[cathal]

This contract sucks because it's a regional contract. It hit the regional bar- didn't move it because we're too afraid to.
We are being treated the way we've asked to be treated.
The Beatle hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that what the Avro does is the same compared to a DC9 or a Fokker, Inclusive scope said it right on too- we dropped the ball . We got our once in 5 years chance to make a huge difference and we chose to go on sucking on a pole just in case we get a shot at major.
There's no reason this can't be our major, except that we won't demand it.
Fly safe, fly the concession. Gave in '04, due in '09. Our union gave you what you wanted, so please don't bitch about any work rule for the next 5 years if you voted yes.
Looks like Mesa set the new bar- suck a c0ck just so you have a job. That's what we're doing now at XJ.
I don't like the taste, so I'm gonna bitch about it for the next 5 years.

 

[Wanderer]

So what?! Because the passengers have a different midset we should all take it in the A$$ on our contracts?!

How long are people going to use the post-9/11 economy as a pathetic excuse to not get what they REALLY want. Because aulthough the Mesaba contact is an improvement on what they had, I seriously doubt that it was EXACTLY what the pilots had in mind when they were ready to walk on January 9th.

When I was at that strike rally, DW and TW talked about getting a contract EQUAL to those at Comair/AWAC... Where is that mentality now?

Now CMR/AWAC is unattainable? BS! CMR had to set precident in 2001, it's time for SOMEONE to step up to the plate and continue what they started. Bad economy or not....

When you look at those pay rates..... Do you think that's what you're worth?

Thank you again for your ignorance. I am glad you posted.

I want to be paid ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Does that mean I am going to get it?

Seriously...do you NOT see what is happening in the industry? It isn't some sort of media/management bullpoop to screw "the Profession" post 9/11.

I will not defend the management here...but, for YEARS, our whole industry has been running on a pratically CRIMINAL business plan (I speak of the majors), taking other businesses (business travelers) out back and fleecing them. Finally, these businesses have smartened up and tightened their budgets...and as a result, our industry (and the horrible business models) are suffering.

And if you cannot understand that (because it seems as if all you can think about is "What is in it for ME") in those terms, try it in these: the next time you have to pay for something (ANYTHING that you think is outrageously priced), don't complain...just pay for it. You helping someone elses "profession" and have no right to complain - because it is helping them get exactly what they want.

Back to our industry: Yes, regionals are making money NOW...but have they been asked to make concessions? Some...but the "trickle down" is going to turn into a waterfall/flood relatively soon. I bet CMR management fears the sound of footsteps outside their doorways. Especially knowing what the DALPA is going through right now (trying to reach concession agreements with DAL).

We will all have to "take it." I would suggest preparing yourself by pulling your head out of your rear...or maybe just keep it up there!

 

[T-handle]

Remember that 98% of us voted to authorize a strike if necessary and this TA passed by a weak 66%. Still a clearly divided group and probably will be for a long time. So do not blame the entire Mesaba pilot group for ratifying the contract.

Go figure... I suspect more people were just tired of the whole process and wanted to end it. Another victory for management. Do you hear that laughter?? Yea, it's management walking and laughing all the way to the bank. Oh well, there's nothing we can do about it now except b!tch about it for the next 5 years plus another 2 or 3 for dragged out negotiations. Lets enjoy our pretty little RJs that we're not even guaranteed. oh yea, look for the "big announcement" in the coming weeks.

 

[fly4ever]

Cathal,

You are doing wonders for yourself and the rest of us at XJ. Thanks. Since when did a NWA DC-9 pilot get their job coming fresh out of a college program, instructing for maybe a year and a half and plopping down in a right seat and earn $100 per hour. They started somewhere lower paying just like us. Get over it guys, we gained in every section, including pay. Starting tomorrow, my pay will go up almost 13%. If I look back a couple of weeks ago to just before my 3rd year increase my hourly pay will increase tomorrow by almost 20%.

DoinTime, NEWSOUTH,
You PCL guys still don't get it. Your current contract is what has enabled you to get those precious jets - a contract that isn't even close to ours in work rules alone. You dug your own hole we didn't dig it for you. We got a contract that IS on par with AWAC, no, it's not Comair. Now it's your turn to try and move above us. We want you to. We will support you but you will have your hands full with all of those "buy-your-job" guys because they will do your job for nothing. They have already proven that.

Good Luck!


BTW, captjim, ACE, alrightythen23, Othello it is good to hear some support and positive words. This was a tough decision for a lot of people.

 

[Wanderer]

oh yea, look for the "big announcement" in the coming weeks.

No....they will wait until it is time for 9E to reach the negotiating table!

 

[dondk]

We want you to. We will support you but you will have your hands full with all of those "buy-your-job" guys because they will do your job for nothing. They have already proven that.

1... We the pilots of PCL did not have anything to do with the hiring of GIA people. To "suggest" otherwise is foolish..

2... At over 750 pilots on the ranks currently.. how many or better yet what percentage "may be" GIA? maybe 15% When we finally become close to 1300 strong, we "may" have close to 20% of GIA people.

3... Those GIA people (most who are really good people BTW) have been screwed or better yet "holly'd" over several times over. When their time comes to upgrade there will be dozens of dudes junior to them already in the left seat. They will have paid their dues over and over again in more ways than one.

While some of the non-GIA people are worried about how they "may" vote.. it is still better than 2 years away and PCL management has plenty of time to continue screwing them over. I for one am not overly worried about those who have been "holly'd and DW'd" several times over signing anything less or equal to what we currently have.

As for Mesaba.. maybe the soft money will make a difference in the QOL, only Mesaba pilots will know and tell. I am glad it is over for them and I hope it will make an positive impact in their lives.

 

[mesaba2425]

So much for raising the bar. I hate to say it but I told you so.

 

[jarhead]

Mesaba 2425

Question for you.

Do you really enjoy being a weiner?

Just curious.

 

[sf3boy]

Mesaba2425,
I thought you were against us raising the bar. The good news for you and all the other work groups at XJ is that there was not a strike and the company remains just as profitable today as it was a year ago. You all get to thank the pilots for ALLOWING you to keep your jobs since we have been told this last month that it would the pilots fault for you losing your jobs.

The bad news for us is that we did not get more pay than Comair to fly airplanes that we do not have. So, I will be very happy to see the 9E TA in few years go above Comair and show the XJ pilots really how to do business.

Just a little side note here,.......But we did secure industry leading turbo prop pay (2/3 of the XJ flying) and improve our already great work rules. Oh yeah, all of MAIR's flying will be done by us. Is all of MAIR's maintenance done by XJ wrenches?

 

[blade230]

Hey Mesaba guys,

I supported you. I would have supported you if you striked by NOT flying your routes. Even though according to ALPA, I would NOT have been held accountable if I did, as I am still on probation. I will continue to support you, because I believe as Airlinkers, we are all in this sh*tstorm together.

But just because some people view your TA differently than you do, why do you look for something as Pathetic as the PFT/gulfstream thing to come back with.

Not that PFT is great, but there are TONS of PFT outfits around, not just gulfpay. Any many of those so called "buy a jobers" would also have supported you in the event of a strike at the possible cost of their job, as many were on probation. You may dispise the idea of PFT, but TRY to show a little respect to the people who would have supported you. And some WERE from gulfstream.

Congrats on the min. 11 days off. Gotta say that would be nice.

 

[sf3boy]

Don't get me wrong, I will be on the picket line in MEM/MSP/DTW when it is 9E's turn to bat. I also remember though, 9E being PFT long before Gulfstream........thus I applied to XJ instead. And you can count me in the minority (33%) of the XJ pilot group. Go get them Pinnacle!!! I will carry a sign with pride with you in 2005, 2006, 2007. We all know how speedy NWA likes to wrap up contract talks.

 

[Anaconda]

sorry, but it's another regional lowering the bar. MESAba...

 

[skootertrash]

YOU ------ --------- ---- ------- ----.

-------------- LOOOSERS.

GO ---- ORNSTIENS --------


Proudly edited by UAL78
Moderator

 

[mesaba2425]

It doesn't matter how the Mesaba pilots try to spin it, they didn't succeed in raising the bar. I think it pretty much stayed where it was or maybe just an inch or two lower.

I seem to remember Mesa pilots defending their position on their vote and a few Mesaba pilots bashing them. It looks this the shoe is on the other foot and doesn't fit very well.

I find it interesting how the pilots talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Face it, you guys blinked before management and they called your bluff. Look on the bright side - only 5 more years until you get your chance to "raise the bar".

 

[N813CA]

Wanderer

Nice try Dong. Comair has the lowest cost per seat mile of all DCI. So I don't really care what the cost reductions you do. ,Things have changed there will never be a MAJOR airline captain making $300,000 a year and only working 4 days a month, but why can't you say a FO at Comair is worth $40,000 a year and home 14 days off. You can still kiss my

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Time will Tell

Talking to some Mesaba pilots, many right off the bat were going to vote NO on this TA, yet it was their MEC on the Road Shows that talked it up big time to the point of passage. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the key negotiators/MEC members in the coming year. If some accept management positions or take the retro check and move on to another airline in the near future, then that's certainly some evidence that the pilot group was sold out. If not, then maybe this was truly the best offer they felt they could negotiate. Hopefully 2009/realistically 2011 will bring around bigger gains, start the countdown clock over.

 

[d.fitz]

Someone asked the new starting salary for an FO. It went from $17k to $21,600.


Wanderer:

and its not about "me,me,me" its about "us, us, us". By voting yes on this TA - by definition, you were doing exactly what you accuse others of doing!

If the "paying the dues" mindset does not change then neither will the salaries!

Do you know that an entry level RIVETER (no education required) at Boeing makes more money than an experienced FO or new captain.

The ALPA website says it all:

"We went into these negotiations with the slogan, "Our Profits, Our Jobs," at a time when our jobs and our growth opportunities were far from secure. This contract forces management to commit to use the profits that we helped generate to grow the airline using pilots on Mesaba's seniority list. We secured our futures and protected our careers with strong scope language that binds the holding company to our agreement."

 

[mesaba2425]

Do you know that an entry level RIVETER (no education required) at Boeing makes more money than an experienced FO or new captain.

That's because they have a stronger union than Mesaba that secured a better contract.

 

[EL10]

Raise or lower the bar?

The last three contracts for “express carries” to be singed are Chautauqua, Skyway, and Mesaba. How did the last of these three compare to the two previous contracts signed before them? They may not be the best or the worst contracts but these in order they occurred are the most current to be signed. Industry and economy conditions change but these contracts where signed in a relative parity of time. One carrier Chautauqua is in a growth phase. Second carrier’s parent was close to filing for bankruptcy. Third carrier Mesaba is closely aligned with a major that is stable and is in neither a growth nor shrinking state. Scope, pay, rigs, and retirement where the strike issues of Mesaba. Below are comparisons in those areas they felt most important. As you can see compared to the previous contracts singed right before there’s they held the line or surpassed it. First words are Comair, Air Wisconsin. But those are not passed in relative environment. Future or the pasts are not today. As a PCL pilot I of course would have liked more for our brothers and sisters. I feel most of the PCL pilots wanted to see XJ succeed just because they wanted to ride on the coat tails and not have to do the dirty work them self’s to get what they want. People like NEWSOUTH and Mesaba2425 are disgusting. Quite frankly im embarrassed to have to work with someone like NEWSOUTH. He does not represent an informed pilot. With PCL having FO s with four years seniority now the days of fast gains are gone. Which also is a good time to state that the GIA people did not PFT to PCL. As with anything you get what you negotiate for. Did United negotiate it self to bankruptcy? Did Mesa negotiate for growth? Can we compare United - Atlantic Coast – Mesa – Fedex - Cap Air all the same way? Did a Mesaba pilot take a step backwards for himself or a step forward? Are you as an outsider scared to be the one that has to take a huge step forward? Do you have your pilot group unified at your own property to take that leap? Each airline has its own Fee Per Departure, its own CASM, its own RASM, and bottom line income. Can Skyway pay out a 8 million dollar increase contract just as easy as Southwest can? Is an increase in Mesaba’s contract costs to the company of 8 million a year and 44 over the length of the deal not a gain? I’m not trying to promote or push their contract just telling some facts. I as a PCL pilot supported XJ before there negotiations, during, and now even after. This BULL of fighting amongst ourselves because a chart says .30 cents less for 8 months in a phantom aircraft is as silly as the game that NWA played with the Avros. You who lower yourselves to taking a dump on each other over something you are not evening willing to do for yourself is absolutely pathetic. Especially after having either for one asked the other for support or second you will be relying on the other for support soon. The contract is signed in. Its over the conversation of should or could have. If you’re up next to negotiate concentrate on doing what you need to so you can get what you want. Just like J.C. Lawson said “DON’T LOOK BACK”

Scope:
Chautauqua has got scope restrictions on parent, company, subsidiaries, and future subsidiaries.(Does not include Wexford)
Skyway has got scope restrictions on company, subsidiaries, and future
Mesaba has got scope on parent, company, subsidiaries, and future

Pay (Due to Skyway and Chautauqua not having any 30 seat turboprops or 70 seat jets the only scale all three have uncommon is 50 turbojet rates):
First Year FO:
Chautauqua 2004: $21.00; 2007: $22.95
Skyway 2004: $17.57; 2007: $19.45
Mesaba 2004: $23.08; 2007: $24.97

Five Year FO:
Chautauqua 2004: $33.50; 2007: $36.62
Skyway 2004: $26.19; 2007: $34.86
Mesaba 2004: $34.76; 2007: $36.87

Five Year CA:
Chautauqua 2004: $62.29; 2007: $66.99
Skyway 2004: $52.23; 2007: $61.17
Mesaba 2004: $61.15; 2007: $66.17

Ten Year CA:
Chautauqua 2004: $71.39; 2007: $78.03
Skyway 2004: $60.16; 2007: $70.91
Mesaba 2004: $73.02; 2007: $79.01

Pay Protection:
Chautauqua: Line guarantee if company meets performance goal (segment pay)
Skyway: Block or better
Mesaba: Line guarantee, Block or better

Rigs:
Chautauqua: None
Skyway: None
Mesaba: Min day 4 hours (look forward)

Min Day off
Chautauqua: Line 12; Reserve 11
Skyway: Line 10; Reserve 10: (2005 both go to 11)
Mesaba: Line 11; Reserve 11

Retirement:
Chautauqua: The Company will provide retirement benefits (i.e., 401(k)) to all pilots. A pilot whose longevity is six (6) years or less, the Company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first two and one-half percent (2.5%) contributed by the pilot. A pilot whose longevity is more than six (6) years and less than thirteen (13) years, the company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first four percent (4%) contributed by the pilot. A pilot whose longevity is thirteen (13) years or longer, the Company will match one hundred percent (100%) of the first six percent (6%) contributed by the pilot.
Skyway: Beginning with the effective date of this Agreement, pilots will continue to participate in the Skyway Airlines, Inc., d/b/a Midwest Connect, 401(k) Plan (“the 401(k) Plan”), with a Company matching contribution of 2.5% of the pilot’s salary deferrals up to the first ten percent (10%) of compensation. The Company matching contributions will be made for each payroll period, with payment made to the plan within five (5) business days of each payday.
Mesaba:
Years of Service Company Match % Match Salary ReductionContributions Each Plan Year Up To
1 but less than 6 25% 6% of eligible earnings
6 but less than 11 50% 8% of eligible earnings
11 but less than 16 75% 9% of eligible earnings
16 but less than 20 100% 10% of eligible earnings
20 or more 125% 10% of eligible earnings