Mesaba Street Saab Captain program done?

[JamesD]

Ok I'll explain it for you, Your view is if the company did not waive the seatlocks. So if they where to hire a street captain for the crj first they would have to release the seat locks to let anyone who wants that position have it, that is always the case. Now what the company is doing is waiving the seatlocks for this bid and this bid only. Meaning if I'm seatlocked and senior to you and your not seatlocked I go on this bid.

 

[FOrever85]

whataboutbob- JamesD

Slitbar and wmusigpi have explained it correctly, but I will try again.

1)The company would love nothing more than to pay a new hire to be captain over an eight or nine year pilot. They have never cared about safety, only money. (Look what JR has tried to do since returning)

2) As far as how junior or senior, who knows. The way it works, it could be the bottom 11 people on the entire seniority list could be awarded it, if they are qualified (yes just ATP mins, and bid it) then it moves up to the most senior seat locked captain. It doesn't release all of them, it only releases the most senior seat locked pilot who wants m6c. So like I said it could be one senior guy and the eleven of the least senior people in the company. (I am not going to even touch bypassing, cause that is a whole other mess.)


That is the language, the reason they put that warning is because crew planning has gone through the pref bids and have found that this situation will occur. It will probably continue for the foreseeable future, or until Delta and NWA merge, but that is whole other can of worms.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Actually, I believe James D. to be correct on this issue. The "warning" specifically identifies the clause in the contract in which they are using. Section 24 C. 1. states, "the company may waive any or all equipment freezes on a uniform and non-discriminatory basis." Uniform = Saab Captains and Non-discriminatory = all Saab Captains.

My basic understanding is that the company is using their right to waive seat locks prior to the award to allow all Saab captains a chance to bid for the CRJ 200. Once this vacany closes, those unaffected by the award will return to their previous seat lock, Saab Captain.

A warning from the company saying that seat locks will be released once the most junior guy on property has an opportunity for the position is like telling us that they are going to exhale after inhaling. If you don't know the process, that is your own fault. This last point proven every day by our friendly crew schedulers.

No personal attacks intended, just trying for healthy conversation.

 

[SplitBar]

Vacancy Notice 08-01 ​

Per Section 24.C.1. of the CBA, Mesaba plans to waive as many Saab Captain Freezes as needed to fill the CRJ Captain positions on this Vacancy 08-01. Any Saab Captain who is currently on a freeze, who has a CRJ captain preference on file will be eligible to be awarded a CRJ Captain Position in seniority order. Saab Captains who are not awarded a CRJ Captain Position on this Vacancy Award will continue with their Saab Captain Freeze. Saab Captains should ensure that their bid cards accurately reflect their choices.

It says the company plans "to waive as many Saab Captain freezes AS NEEDED to fill the CRJ Captain positions..." If enough qualified & unlocked Captains/FO's bid all the slots than ZERO Captain freezes will be waived. The company added this disclaimer because they forsee a likelyhood that this award my play out where it will be necessary to waive some Saab Captain freezes. A frozen Captain has the ability to bid whatever he/she wants and a Captain freeze does not have to be released in order for a frozen Captain to bid for a different position. The freeze only prevents the pilot from being awarded a different position....it doesn't prevent the pilot from bidding different position. You can bid whatever you want when your frozen, you just wont get awarded it...unless planning waives the freeze on an "AS NEEDED" basis.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Correct, they will waive enough seat locks to fill the vacancy ... the rest of the seat locks will remain intact. The instance you are talking about, (basically running out of qualified unlocked captains and qualified (wanting) f/o's) wouldn't require the company to waive seat locks. The contract is very clear on that point in 24 C 4 b(2), ' a pilot subject to a Captain freeze WILL be released from such freeze to prevent the hiring of a Captian off the street'.

 

[SplitBar]

I agree Hulk, but JamesD is saying that seat locks wont apply at all to 08-01 and according to his logic, 12 seat locked senior Saab Captains could get the award while junior unlocked Captains/FO's get passed over. That is where we aren't seeing eye to eye.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

I guess I don't know the intent ... but believe that JamesD's scenario could very well be true, actually is true.

Why would the company warn us about running out of qualified f\o's. Once that situation was reached, they could just assign the seat to whoever bid it regardless of seat lock. Isn't that why the standing bid is so important/dangerous.

 

[SplitBar]

Now what the company is doing is waiving the seatlocks for this bid and this bid only. Meaning if I'm seatlocked and senior to you and your not seatlocked I go on this bid.

Here is JamesD's scenario. This will not play out. The junior unlocked pilot will go on the award before the senior locked pilot does. If enough junior unlocked pilots are qualified and bid than the seat locked JamesD, (if he is locked), doesn't go on the bid award. I am NOT saying that the company wont waive seat locks, I'm just saying it will be on the "AS NEEDED" basis like they advertised.

 

[JamesD]

Any Saab Captain who is currently on a freeze, who has a CRJ captain preference on file will be eligible to be awarded a CRJ Captain Position in seniority order.

 

[SplitBar]

Any Saab Captain who is currently on a freeze, who has a CRJ captain preference on file will be eligible to be awarded a CRJ Captain Position in seniority order.

will be eligible on an "AS NEEDED" basis. I'm eligible to flow to NWA tomorrow but it ain't gonna happen for me.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

my oppinion so becareful!

Seat locks are a company desire to protect their investment in training.

Union Nirvana would be to have the senority list have the highest paid person at senority #1 and shoot straight down to the lowest paid person at #end ... via no seatlocks.

That is why the provision would be in the contract. If the company so pleases, they can release seat locks (their desire) to fill a vacancy as long as they do so fairly (non-discriminatory or in union talk with the most senior affected pilot followed in senority order after that).

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Any Saab Captain who is currently on a freeze, who has a CRJ captain preference on file, will be eligible to be awarded a CRJ Captain Position in seniority order

Now read it like this:

All Saab Captains currently on a freeze, who have a CRJ captain preference on file, will be eligible to be awarded a CRJ Captain Position in seniority order

as needed just means in the end this provision will only apply to the total amount of captain seat available. 14 or 12 (or whatever the number is) Saab captains may be released from the Saab lock to occupy the CRJ

 

[Chris9702l]

Ok guys, I went straight to the source - Frank, manager of crew planning

He said seatlocks are released before the whole process takes place!

So if you are a super senior seatlocked Saab captain you will get the CRJ right from the get go (not have to hope that not enough junior guys take it)

C

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Why would XJ waive seatlocks? Talk in the crew room last week was that the Saabs were well staffed maybe even a little over. I wonder if they are just skimming off some of the captains so they won't have to replace more fo's? Just a thought.

 

[WIPilot]

Why would XJ waive seatlocks? Talk in the crew room last week was that the Saabs were well staffed maybe even a little over. I wonder if they are just skimming off some of the captains so they won't have to replace more fo's? Just a thought.

But someone has to come from somewhere to fill their Saab Captain spot.