Mesaba getting more CRJ-200's?

[IamGumbyDammit]

....so your defense for his ignorance about his new job was that he was lying.....OK got it.....

Whatever it took to get you to go away that day.........

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

....so your defense for his ignorance about his new job was that he was lying.....OK got it.....

I'd defend him if he was ignoring you.

 

[PCL_128]

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."

Learning from history is one thing; b!tching and moaning about it for all eternity is quite another.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Learning from history is one thing; b!tching and moaning about it for all eternity is quite another.

When you and ALPA learn....I will quit b!tching......

Deal or no deal?

 

[PCL_128]

Downward pressure hurts everyone.....That is what this is about....The mainlines have to do the heavy lifting for two reasons.....

1. The union representing us says that this "brand scope" belongs to the mainline group....Under that logic only they can negotiate "brand scope"....How do you propose that ASA pilots negotiate Delta brand scope?

2. The mainlines have the leverage.....ASA or CMR can be replaced if they push too hard....as is being seen with CMR....

What the regionals need to give up to accomplish this is something that you refuse to give up: flow-back rights. The best way to deal with brand scope is to establish permanent flow-through agreements that limit all code share agreements to ALPA regionals that have a flow-through with the mainline carrier. The mainline pilots can accomplish this, but they need something in return. If they're going to give up their negotiating capital to achieve this brand scope, then they need to have some more job security in return. That means flow-back rights. Until you're willing to accept something like this, you'll never get your coveted brand scope.

 

[PCL_128]

When you and ALPA learn....I will quit b!tching......

Deal or no deal?

I've already learned. I'm the world's biggest advocate of strong scope language.

 

[JoeMerchant]

What the regionals need to give up to accomplish this is something that you refuse to give up: flow-back rights. The best way to deal with brand scope is to establish permanent flow-through agreements that limit all code share agreements to ALPA regionals that have a flow-through with the mainline carrier. The mainline pilots can accomplish this, but they need something in return. If they're going to give up their negotiating capital to achieve this brand scope, then they need to have some more job security in return. That means flow-back rights. Until you're willing to accept something like this, you'll never get your coveted brand scope.

I'm all for FAIR cross bidding....But so far I haven't seen that with any of the flowthrough agreements...They are very one sided.....

The mainline pilot flows back to the top of the regional list and the regional pilot flows to the bottom of the mainline list....

That's no deal there...I would rather just stay separate......The cuts are about to happen again and I'm glad there isn't a flowback to the top of our list...

 

[JoeMerchant]

I've already learned. I'm the world's biggest advocate of strong scope language.

1. ALPA hasn't learned....

2. I don't think the "strong scope" you are talking about will fly with the regional folks....maybe I'm wrong on this but I bet it is more of the same.....

 

[PCL_128]

I don't think the "strong scope" you are talking about will fly with the regional folks....maybe I'm wrong on this but I bet it is more of the same.....

What I want is a single seniority list. No more outsourcing. Period. Barring that, since it's likely impossible at this point in time, the intermediate step should be flow-through agreements. Yes, that would require flow-ups to go to the bottom of the mainline list and flow-downs to go to the top. This is the sacrifice that I'm talking about from the regional guys. The reward is in never having to deal with having your flying RFPed to the lowest bidder again.

 

[JoeMerchant]

What I want is a single seniority list. No more outsourcing. Period. Barring that, since it's likely impossible at this point in time, the intermediate step should be flow-through agreements. Yes, that would require flow-ups to go to the bottom of the mainline list and flow-downs to go to the top. This is the sacrifice that I'm talking about from the regional guys. The reward is in never having to deal with having your flying RFPed to the lowest bidder again.

1. We tried the single list with the PID.....but mainline arrogance killed it...There is a double standard in ALPA....there are "real jobs" and "stepping stone jobs"....Like "wives and lovers"....ALPA's hope is that they never meet.......

2. Your version of a flowthrough proves my point above.....A probationary mainline pilot who has been flying Delta passengers for less than a year and has been an ALPA member for less than a year trumps a 25 year ASA or CMR pilot who has been flying Delta passengers possibly longer than that Delta pilot has been alive.....If that is ALPA's version of "fair" then it is time for ALPA to go....

I would rather deal with the RFP's and make a competitive bid than get bumped down.....