Mesaba CRJs to be "asset" transfer?

[Raskal]

Wow Raskal... I guess we see where you stand on the solidarity issue. I sense that you joined XJ after bankruptcy and were perhaps even a street captain with experience from another regional. I think you're sorely misjudging your own pilot group. I disagree with you whole heartedly... I believe if the tables were turned despite our past differences, the XJ pilot would do the right thing. Just as we have in the past.

You and all the guys that joined after bankruptcy need to fully understand what the pilot group has endured in the last 10+ years. Once you fully understand that you'll see why we are the way we are today. I hope that the majority of your end of the seniority list don't feel the way you do. If they do, we're all in for a rough ride during these new times at XJ. We need to be one, solid and cohesive pilot group going forward. In fact, ALL XJ labor needs to be solid and cohesive. Just like we were post 9/11, contract '04 and bankruptcy.

You are partially right, I am a downgraded street captain, my old posts show that. I had no experience at a previous regional, I came from another part of the industry. As to where I stand, I'm not at all unhappy here, if I were I would have left already. This job has given me exactly the things I want in more areas than my previous employer, even with the pay cut. I don't think my position will improve with this merger/buyout, nor do I think it terrible in general.

However, I do think this list is very divided along seniority, to think otherwise is to turn a blind eye to events over the past year. To only clarify, I am not on one side of the FO pay issue or the other, personally I thought it was a waste of time from the get go and tried not to get involved. What was so disturbing to me is how this "above the fray, do the right thing, just a bunch of really good guys" pilot group turned into the grumpy old men of the US Air/America West merger and immediately turned upon each other. It sucked, and to hear about excuses for behavior due to a bankruptcy is just silly.

I am hopeful for something different, but I am also realistic. Just because I didn't work here during the bankruptcy doesn't mean I didn't hear about how incredibly miserable it was, I've known people here for a long time. The only bright spot was a fairly close knit pilot group. I think that group has been damaged more than you care to admit, and I hear it from both seats.

We'll see, but in the end I don't believe we will have as much say as any of the groups would like anyway. As someone once said, fair integration means no one is happy.

 

[flap operator]

Raskal - fair enough. Indeed this is a very different pilot group today than during bankruptcy, contract '04 and our post 9/11 drama. Much of that is because nearly half the seniority list was hired after 2007 and has been here no more than 3 years. That half of the seniority list wasn't exposed to the things pre 2007 and therefore walked into a completely different company with a different attitude. Post 2007 hires have a completely different outlook on the state of affairs at the company than anyone here pre 2007. One can argue even the post 2007 group is fractured. Some guys spent no time on reserve and have no clue what reserve is like! What is true, is that the pre 2007 pilot group had resolve. We were strong, unified and maybe even stubborn. We stuck together and took our beatings like professionals. The struggle now, is to keep that same attitude with our new pilot group. Many have no clue what will hit them shortly. Many have no clue how bad it can really be. I'll tell you one thing, this new age of Mesaba will bring new meaning to the concept of how great (in general) things have been post 2007. Of course, all up until the downward spiral we find ourselves in today.

Maybe you're right about how you see our pilot group, but I hope you're wrong. The strength, resolve and unity demonstrated between 2001 and 2007 by the Mesaba pilots, will be paramount to the success of the entire pilot group that works for Pinnacle Holdings (PCL, Colgan and XJ). One list, one contract should be our new mantra.

 

[xjhawk]

wow, polite and good words said on both sides. I am impressed. Everyone take a look on how to treat a fellow pilot who you disagree with just as I am . Its a start anyways. Any 9E pilots want to join in and get into this new way of communicating? I am pretty harsh on here when I see someone posting something that is more rant and less fact, but i think you two just set the tone. BTW i am not being sarcastic

 

[higney85]

I thought hugs weren't approved on FI. I'll give you a handshake and priority on the Jumpseat... Working to get some of your furloughs back into a cockpit too.

Was that nice enough?

 

[CptMurf]

Raskal - fair enough. Indeed this is a very different pilot group today than during bankruptcy, contract '04 and our post 9/11 drama. Much of that is because nearly half the seniority list was hired after 2007 and has been here no more than 3 years. That half of the seniority list wasn't exposed to the things pre 2007 and therefore walked into a completely different company with a different attitude. Post 2007 hires have a completely different outlook on the state of affairs at the company than anyone here pre 2007. One can argue even the post 2007 group is fractured. Some guys spent no time on reserve and have no clue what reserve is like! What is true, is that the pre 2007 pilot group had resolve. We were strong, unified and maybe even stubborn. We stuck together and took our beatings like professionals. The struggle now, is to keep that same attitude with our new pilot group. Many have no clue what will hit them shortly. Many have no clue how bad it can really be. I'll tell you one thing, this new age of Mesaba will bring new meaning to the concept of how great (in general) things have been post 2007. Of course, all up until the downward spiral we find ourselves in today.

Maybe you're right about how you see our pilot group, but I hope you're wrong. The strength, resolve and unity demonstrated between 2001 and 2007 by the Mesaba pilots, will be paramount to the success of the entire pilot group that works for Pinnacle Holdings (PCL, Colgan and XJ). One list, one contract should be our new mantra.

++++1 (needed 5 characters)

 

[skyguy40]

I have posted this on another thread also, but applies here too. So the furloughed Mesaba pilots will get preferential hiring at 9e. You get to keep your seniority for the purposes of pay and benefits but you are like a new hire in every other way. So here’s my question: Will one group of Mesaba pilots be treated differently than another Mesaba group? Think asset transfer! Why would they get a better deal than their fellow brothers and sisters? Just asking!

 

[CptMurf]

I have posted this on another thread also, but applies here too. So the furloughed Mesaba pilots will get preferential hiring at 9e. You get to keep your seniority for the purposes of pay and benefits but you are like a new hire in every other way. So here’s my question: Will one group of Mesaba pilots be treated differently than another Mesaba group? Think asset transfer! Why would they get a better deal than their fellow brothers and sisters? Just asking!

They also keep XJ number for later integration. These individuals will have a job immediately as a new hire, but will be integrated later (once that is negotiated) and may jump ahead in the list at that point.

 

[higney85]

I have posted this on another thread also, but applies here too. So the furloughed Mesaba pilots will get preferential hiring at 9e. You get to keep your seniority for the purposes of pay and benefits but you are like a new hire in every other way. So here’s my question: Will one group of Mesaba pilots be treated differently than another Mesaba group? Think asset transfer! Why would they get a better deal than their fellow brothers and sisters? Just asking!

There is no seniority transfer. There is longevity transfered, but only for time
worked (not furlough + work which would be
straight DOH). These guys are essentially new hires when there would be preferential interviews it would actually be job placement and pilots get to keep time worked. This in theory is what the DCPA and the ALPA "one list" dream has included. Think about this n a grand scale- nobody is hurt, and we can help our fellow pilots.

The overall seniority list is a different can of worms. I don't have the exact date but I believe at the end of the month there is a meeting with all 3 MEC's and national to work on that. The guys who come to 9E from the XJ sen list (furloughs) will retain their mesaba number if/for an sli arrangement. There is plenty of banter about the sli and job placement but both are seperate and the job placement should show that the MEC's and the company for actually willing to pay guys at their accrued longevity instead of as a "off the street new hire".

 

[xjhawk]

All I can say is that it looks like our management is being told by their overlords to start to dig in for a fight to stop the talk of a single seniority list as per the new FAQ on mymesaba. Our union has to fight to stop this as it would screw more of us than any other scenerio including making intergrating the super senior 900 guys difficult for the 98E pilots. This is not good news and once again I think that other airlines (Pinnacle) has gotten this news before we did as I heard this said last week by some pinnacle pilot on a web board. Let me just hope that it is date of hire if we get asset tranfered and not a single seniority list and I have to leave the mesaba contract to the contract issues they are having. if I am asset transfered over there then I want our contract to go with us and my date of hire. If people want to bring up the LOA that gives us a 2-1 for our seniority I had nothing to do with some letter of agreement signed 10-15 years ago! Where is our unions response to this? I have always said that they cannot just show their hand in their negotiations but this is rediculous. I would like to know that 9E's union is with us and not going to offer us some rediculous ratio for our seniority! We are being bought by a holdings company, not Pinnacle. So if I get transfered to them, I should stand on an equal footing as any other pilot. DATE OF HIRE-That being said I would rather have one list, one contract and a fair intergration.

 

[Monster Buck]

....ratios for number of wide CA, narrow CA, wide FO, narrow FO then average and apply, Delta/NWA, so 900/200/large turboprop/small turboprop. No one should be doing straight ratios like 2 for 1 or 3 for 1, those days should be gone. So it doesn't matter exactly how senior who is on what, it is the number of pilots in each cat. for that size of ac. to determine the ratio for integration.