Mesaba CRJs to be "asset" transfer?

[WildBlue]

As Higney85 said, there are a lot of ways to look at this. Do not forget LOA 21 signed between Pinnacle, Mesaba and the two MECs. I have not read it, but I did hear some folks who have talking about how mgmt may be using that as the means of bringing XJ pilots over.

 

[CptMurf]

As Higney85 said, there are a lot of ways to look at this. Do not forget LOA 21 signed between Pinnacle, Mesaba and the two MECs. I have not read it, but I did hear some folks who have talking about how mgmt may be using that as the means of bringing XJ pilots over.

It's not up to mgmt. That would be between pilot groups. And I wouldn't count on your newfound seniority based on a 13 year old LOA which has no correlation to the current situation.

 

[CptMurf]

Any management can choose not to follow a term in their contract. It would be up to the entire pilot group to stand up for the wrongs at that point. Whether that is arbitration or self help. The biggest force would be the investors knowing that the entire corporations future is in jeopardy due to poor labor relations.
There are provisions in our contract for everything that is happening. Our unions will have a strong say if we stay together on this. Real world example at XJ... Our organizing all unionized labor groups against management in one unified voice during the BK.

 

[kmox29]

Unfortunately the pilots are not in charge. I've worked long enough for 9E to know how management runs this company, and the "never compromise savings" mantra will rear its ugly head.

You (pilots) have more power than you believe. The issue is, whether or not you'll use it effectively.

The original question remains as follows: What does Mesaba have in their contract to prevent management from pulling airframes without SLI?

Again, why aren't the Pinnacle pilots asking their MEC what they can do to ensure all groups don't get screwed by management?

 

[higney85]

Again, why aren't the Pinnacle pilots asking their MEC what they can do to ensure all groups don't get screwed by management?

Many actually are. I'm seeing why FI has a bad rap of being truthless bashing at times but I will say many are asking for a way to have guys come over with airframes in relative seniority. Our flying for sept still requires additional staffing- the 9E and XJ planes still must continue flying and attrition is up, hours are up, and the company even admits they are short. Ideally all the planes and all the current 9E/XJ/XJ furloughs will be flying them. If you look at this from a bird's eye view there are many avenues, some are legal, some are the company's ways to cost savings, some are ALPA merger policy (section 45 of the admin manual, accessible from your crewroom.alp.org library page). In the end what we all want is a good contract and a pilot group (overall) that has learned from DL/NWA and the mistakes of America west/ usair. Until the company truly puts out what they are looking for in terms of transfer/merger/strategic plan we are all spinning wheels in the mud with theories. The MEC's are talking and will all meet face to face when the big picture actually begins to be painted. I'd tell everyone to tell your reps what you want, but also think realistically as to the situation. Each group simply wanting a windfall will lead to arbitration. The LOA exists, so does other scope language.

 

[CptMurf]

I was with you till your last statement. The LOA is only being brought into this because your pilots are bringing it up as a way for a personal gain at XJ pilots expense. If you were interested in a fair integration, you would not entertain the idea of using it, and would not let your mgmt. even imply your using of it. It did not and does not apply to this type of situation. The pilots that used the LOA would tell you they did not lose out, nor feel screwed by it. I'll put you in contact with at least 10 of them if you would like to discuss it. Lastly, if it were used now, it would screw those pilots too. If you think they were screwed by us (they weren't), why are you insistent on screwing them over too?

 

[Superpilot92]

push for integration, dont let them whipsaw yall as a pilot group! Strength in numbers!!

 

[higney85]

Murf- I hear ya. Off the top of my head I see the following issues with the LOA that legal could tear apart. I bring it up because it IS in both contracts and mgmt WILL try to use it.

-written between mesaba and express, not pinnacle
-after effective date seniority transfer can be interpreted as 1:1
-CRJ's are not mentioned in either LOA
-the language implies a new contract removes the LOA, the LOA was included in the 2004 agreement, what about the essentially new deal from BK?

I'm not out to screw anybody, contrary to your assumptions.

 

[CptMurf]

The BK concessions are actually an LOA to the current agreement. Nothing in LOA 6/21 applies...express gone, date were specific to the LOA, fleet was specific to the LOA, etc. The only part of it still in play is the reciprocal agreement which states if the shoes are on the other foot, XJ pilots could go to 9E with "terms no less favorable that this agreement." Implying there would have to be a new LOA for that specific transfer.

This LOA has NO regard on this situation, has not been brought up by management (per rep), and is only been dicussed on Internet forums (mainly brought up by 9E pilots) as to how XJ pilots will be screwed in seniority integration. Until 9E pilots refuse to use this LOA in integration, the threat will be present for XJ guys. A threat from pilots, not mgmt.

 

[CptMurf]

When you state, " I refuse to except a 1-2 integration, will not entertain discussions with mgmt for the use of it, and will strike for it", then I will believe you are not for it. Until then, I will assume that you will use it for personal gain, against myself, my ability to provide for my family, and my fellow employees. I in turn state that I will not dicuss this as an option, will correct an fellow employee i hear state anything like this, and will not let my union use an integration method like this against 9L. Fair integration on to 1 list is what I want, but if it has to be 2 lists, there should not be significant gains by any one pilot group.