Mesa

[phantom122]

Why is it that mainline pilots often attack/look down at/get bent out of shape toward "regional" pilots for "taking our flying"? Seems to me that it's not the intention of "regional" pilots to take flying from anyone. Decisions about what aircraft are flown and by what pilot group are made by management. I know about scope and what not, but mainline pilot frustration and anger should be directed squarely at management, not at the pilots at the "regional" level. These guys are just trying to make a living doing what they enjoy doing. No one in this world started with 10,000 hrs. flying 747's. Everyone has to start at the bottom, so why is there so much animosity toward the smaller jets and the pilots that fly them? The real solution to management's pushing of the flying toward "the lowest bidder" is for everyone to fight together to significantly raise "regional" airline wages. Sooner or later people have got to take a stand and say "no way, I'm not gonna keep doing this major airline type flying for next-to-nothing wages."

I know it's a little off topic, but this crap about "dam@ you for stealing my 737 flying with your EMB-145" attitude is really starting to irk me. Time to make CEO's think twice about taking advantage of whatever work group necessary in order to line their own pockets.

Flame away if need be.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Mesa interviews

Yes there was an interview on July 1st. It was only for MAPD grads, and only 16 were interviewed. As far as I know there are 3 classes starting in about a week (CRJ, ERJ, Dash8). Rumor is that there is another interview soon, and it will be MAPD grads again. BTW, I have had the chance to fly with quite a bit of MAPD grads, and they are quite impressive for 250TT pilots All training is done in A36, B58, and B1900D, and all slackers seem to be weeded out by the demanding program. Mapd grads flew the 1900 as well as any street FO, as I see it. Of all the grads of MAPD, there have only been 2 that have failed ground school/sim ride. That is well above the "off the street" averages. While in GS at Mesa, the MAPD have continuously outperformed the others. Think about it, even when times were good, MAPD created pilots that would be stuck at Mesa for 3-5 yrs min (low hrs, long upgrade, then still low hrs). What a low turnover rate, I bet that turns a good corporate profit, beware of more MAPD type programs in the future!

PS. I am not with Mesa anymore! Yeah!

Yogi

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

this is no flame.

I would hope the mapd grads would pass the ground school when HIRED, considering it is the second time they are taugh the systems of the 1900. of course i dont know what goes on during there time in mapd, but they should be more prepared than any off the street new hire.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

I agree, but....

Dear Jet,

Then why bash 250TT pilots, when we all agree that they are well prepared. It is funny how only a few have been put in the 1900 recently. Most have been put in the CRJ, ERJ, and Dash. Of the two failures, one was in the 1900, the other in the Dash. No MAPD grad has failed out of either RJ (also, the Dash failure was actually an instructor at MAPD, not a student). Remember, they are only given preferential hiring, not preferential treatment in training. So then, would we agree they are qualified? Well hopefully my point is taken, I only wish that I had been able to shell out the dough for the training, but I am not the least jealous of these guys/gals. They just pay dues in a different way, as in huge student loans. And most of them always had the right attitude, including being polite and happy.

If there is anyone to have a problem with, it should be with the people who went to freedumb, MAPD and streeties alike. They made all this low cost flying possible. They created the bargaining chip for management to $crew over the MESA pilots.

PS. I voted NO!, But what do I know, i'm a small majority.

Sincerely,
Yogi

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

i am not REALLY bashing them. i agree they are prepared, but they have been threw the training twice. once for school, to get the interview. and then once again for real. i have spoken to people at mesa and they really had nothing inspiring to say about THEM. and i agree with you again, THEY are ruining the airline industry for the ones who worked hard to get here. sure you have read this over and over again in many different ways, but it felt good to say it again. aaaaah.

 

[the turtle]

why don't they fail? My guess.....COMMAND BARS

 

[Patriot328]

"(by the way, i turned down the aca bridge, because at the time J32 guys were getting hosed cause a riddle guy was taking higher paying jobs in the j41/crj) "

Can you explain that in a little more detail please?

 

[skydrvr]

"Defending Mesa huh??? I take it you work for one of the bottom feeding Regionals. Nice...how proud you must be...and no I am not one of the "600 hr" new hires"

skydrvr,
Terrific attitude, u must be a pilot? Yes i guess i do work for a "bottom feeder", defending, no. I wasn't a 250hr guy either, i went to riddle diddle and instructed(by the way, i turned down the aca bridge, because at the time J32 guys were getting hosed cause a riddle guy was taking higher paying jobs in the j41/crj) Other guys didnt give a crap. Instead i instructed and glad i did. Where in my post did i mention i was proud? Guess my no vote showed how proud i was? Other airlines did accept low time guys as well, that was the point. And you need to stop labeling guys cause they work for mesa, or cause they work for a "bottom feeder", why are you so special?

Rottweiller,
thats why i asked, as far as i can remember air wisky always had high mins, i remember talking with some folks there at a job fair and they were very friendly. At the time i did not have 2500TT (i believe thats what it was at the time) and i didn't want to work out west.

Again you seem to have failed to understand what is being said..special ...me??? Absolutely not....READ "those that voted YES and those that don't take care of their own.." Glad to hear you're proud. Glad to hear you busted your tail...that still does not change the fact the industry standard has been lowered...sorry but that is the way the majority feels. And that is reality. Instead of moving forward the industry has moved backward. And "that" is what we now have to deal with.

I and I'm sure many others are glad to hear that you wanted what is right.

 

[stillaboo]

that still does not change the fact the industry standard has been lowered...sorry but that is the way the majority feels. And that is reality.

Reality? Clearly you have been a victim of the massive cluster-f**k Mesa has been subjected to here. When a pilot group (like Mesa) takes no concessions and gets increases in every section of their contract but 1 (which remained the same), the 'industry standard' (average salary, average whatever) can only mathematicly move in 1 direction, upward. That is reality.

What a some have a problem with is how far upward it moved. 'The majority' know only that everyone seems to feel Mesa lowered the bar, so, therefore, Mesa must have done it.

Just trying to 'reality' real, nothing more.

-Boo!

 

[skydrvr]

Reality? Clearly you have been a victim of the massive cluster-f**k Mesa has been subjected to here. When a pilot group (like Mesa) takes no concessions and gets increases in every section of their contract but 1 (which remained the same), the 'industry standard' (average salary, average whatever) can only mathematicly move in 1 direction, upward. That is reality.

What a some have a problem with is how far upward it moved. 'The majority' know only that everyone seems to feel Mesa lowered the bar, so, therefore, Mesa must have done it.

Just trying to 'reality' real, nothing more.

-Boo!

Where as I agree I also dissagree.....For Mesa as a pilot group "yes" they did move their work rules up...for an industry as a whole this was a backwards move...I do believe, along with many others, Mesa pilots could have gotten a much better deal if they had held out. This contract will most probably set the bar for negotiations for future pilot groups. Hence forth not moving forward, but backwards.

As you trying to 'reality' real, nothing more. As all of B%t*h & moan it is a reality and all must deal with it.

 

[WileE]

So...

What you are saying is that Mesa didn't move the bar high enough forward with their contract. Agreed. But why does everyone gripe about Mesa not holding out for more when these other airlines have taken concessions? Are they not more to blame for moving the "industry" backwards than Mesa? They say that their management played the "Mesa card" as a reason for them to take their concessions and apparently they fell for it. I understand how everyone seems p.o'd with Mesa but what I don't understand is how they can be less upset with the other airlines that didn't fight for better contracts.

If nothing else they should have fought to hold the line on their contracts instead of taking concessions. They didn't even fight as hard as Mesa did for their contracts. They did less for the "industry" than what you all think Mesa should have done but you still figure on using Mesa as a scapegoat for their lack of fortitude. If Mesa hadn't signed their contract then all this United flying would be going to non-union Freedom and they've already proven that there are a lot of scumbags out there willing to take those seats.

Why should Mesa be held to higher standards that these other pilot groups are being held to?

 

[jetdriven]

if we had "held out" there would be 1500 Freedom pilots and no mesa pilots. Then what pilot group would you turn your hate towards??

Do you work here? Do you have any idea what we were up against??

 

[ERJdca]

quote:
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Originally posted by ERJdca
"(by the way, i turned down the aca bridge, because at the time J32 guys were getting hosed cause a riddle guy was taking higher paying jobs in the j41/crj) "
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Can you explain that in a little more detail please?

Back in 98 i believe it was, when we started the bridge program, new hires were to go into the j41. At that time they just started taking delivery of the CRJ-200s. A bunch of guys were stuck on the j32, not being allowed the j41 because of the bridge program filling the seats. There was a lot of animosity toward the guys, i spoke with a number of ACA guys and i didn't want to be put in that position. My choice, thats all. Hope that helps.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

if we had "held out" there would be 1500 Freedom pilots and no mesa pilots.

Here's my take.

I read the court transcripts that granted a single carrier ruling. That finding was dropped because you already voted in a TA that obviated the need for it.

My opinion is that if you had simply waited for the outcome of the court decision you could have got a far better contract since there would no longer been the threat of Freedumb. JO no doubt successfully rushed your TA so that it would be voted in before the court ruled against him. He knew he would lose since there are many similar precedents.

Unfortunately noone advised your pilot group OR the recomendation was ignored. Unfortunately the Bain group waved your contract in everyone's face declaring it the "industry standard." That's why every UAX carrier pilot group has made sacrifices.

Here's the conspiracy theory of the day. ALPA left you guys to hang simply because less money paid to UAX pilots could mean more money for mainline pilots that own and control the union. Let the flames fly.....

 

[WileE]

And they believed this Bain group?

Mesa certainly wasn't the "industry standard" before the TA was signed, how did it all of a sudden become so overnight? I didn't realize that Mesa's 1300 pilots were such a large portion of the industry.

If the UAX pilot groups fell for that kind of rhetoric from management their MEC's are even bigger chumps than Mesa's.