Mesa Pilot Development

[rsnodg]

This is a long question with some background. October 2000, at the age of 42 I decided to change careers and become a professional pilot. I attended Pam AM for a year and then spent a year going through Alpine Airs First Officer Program. I have 1205 hours with 526 turboprop. It's been a year since I flew with Alpine and I fear my skills are getting rusty. I am seriously considering the Mesa Pilot Development Program. It appears many of you don't like Mesa. Do you know if people are getting jobs this way? For somebody my age (44) is this a good direction?

 

[reno]

Have you considered trying for a 135 job (freight - Ameriflight, Ram Air, Flight Express and so on)? You meet the 135 mins with your time, it is GREAT experience and I think it shows that you are willing to work, take PIC authority, keep schedules and fly in all kinds of Wx rather than trying to buy a job. Not that we all don't buy our jobs in one way or another, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying 135 gives good expericence and I think 121 interviewers respect that. I'm 39 and carreer changer myself, CFII for a year, 135 for the next and now happilyflying 121. It worked for me as well as many, many of my "Freight Dog" buddies.

 

[OnTheDole]

If you go 135 you'll need to get current and have some recent experience. Many would like no less than 100 in the previous year so if its been a while since you flew you may have to spend some $ to get up to speed. Although I didn't go through MAPD I don't think its a poor choice. I think they have a condensed program for people with their comm/multi and a few hundred hours. I am in the pool at Mesa and having gone through the interview the majority (30/35) were MAPD grads. They'll get you up to speed in a hurry but they'll only be able to get you a job at Mesa - which if you ask me is a good place to be. To be competitive off the street you'll need at MINIMUM 2000tt and 500me (looks like you just about got me covered). MAPD may be a shorter route but will get you to Mesa - you need to decide if Mesa is a company you'd like to work for (and with the current climate "work for" - for a while)

 

[utahpilot]

MAPD is an ab-initio program, so it's not what you need since you hold a Comm/MEL rating, right? Youl could do their PACE program, but why would you?

with your time you should be able to get another job. MAPD is like 50K and wouldn't work for you anyway.

seems like you already have mins for lots of places, even Mesa (?), why not just apply?

UP

 

[rsnodg]

I am current. I logged 200 hours this past year in a Mooney M20E. I just don't feel as sharp as I was when I was flying 25 hours a week for Alpine. I have applied at a half dozen 135 operations and I have an application in at Mesa, Horizon, Commair, & a few others.

 

[azpilot]

Quit paying big bucks to fly. I think Pan Am and Alpine took enough of your money. Try getting some sort of paid position.

I believe you are looking at the Mesa Pace Program which will take another $12,000 from you for the opportunity to interview there. I think for low time pilots 300 hours or less it might make sense to try the Pace program for others it doesn't. Find a job, network, and something will come along. You would be better off trying to get to know some current Mesa folks to walk in your resume. That would cost you nothing. If you are feeling rusty consider the time building program at All ATPS. It is the most reasonably priced multi-time around. You get to fly all across the country which I think always helps maintain ones skills. Network, network, network.. It always pays off.

Good luck,
AZPilot

 

[fmnmetalbender]

Also another option with MAPD is their ATP program. Show up with the written taken and then do some baron sim time and actual baron time and then the checkride...of course you need the 1500 hours but flying a little freight could get you that fairly fast. Anyways once you do their ATP program you get the interview (not the job but the chance to interview). An interview for the price of an ATP is a good deal. Check it out.

 

[rsnodg]

I haven't been able to even get an interview with any of the cargo guys. Any tricks or advice there.

 

[azpilot]

I haven't been able to even get an interview with any of the cargo guys. Any tricks or advice there.

Have you ever gone out and tried to get to know any of the pilots? Most jobs are hard to get unless you know someone within. 90% of the positions my friends have gotten were because they knew someone at the company they were applying to. It is not impossible to go the other route but it always makes it more difficult.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Have you ever gone out and tried to get to know any of the pilots? Most jobs are hard to get unless you know someone within. 90% of the positions my friends have gotten were because they knew someone at the company they were applying to. It is not impossible to go the other route but it always makes it more difficult.

Just to add....it's usually a good idea to stop in where you want to work in person. I've had a few friends actually get an informal interview and an offer or put in a pool on the spot. That's rare but it happens. More likey you'll learn something about the company by seeing it in person and you'll not be another piece of paper in the stack to them.

 

[bobbysamd]

Why??

This is a long question with some background. October 2000, at the age of 42 I decided to change careers and become a professional pilot. I attended Pam AM for a year and then spent a year going through Alpine Airs First Officer Program. I have 1205 hours with 526 turboprop. It's been a year since I flew with Alpine and I fear my skills are getting rusty. I am seriously considering the Mesa Pilot Development Program . . .

I'm a former MAPD instructor. You are way beyond that stage. You have earned your ratings. You have built some quals. You don't need to go to any more flight schools or pay for any more training, perhaps with the exception of getting your CFI, which may not be a bad idea because you might land work with it. Update your resume and spam it. I second Reno's suggestion about applying to places like Ameriflight.

Just a little friendly advice from someone who has walked in your shoes. Maintain reasonable expectations. The industry, especially in the regional airlines, seems prejudiced against 40-and-over career changers. The long and short of my experience was that pilots with identical or lesser quals than me but who were under thirty were getting calls and interviews from the same commuter airlines to which I, at 38-40, had applied but heard nothing. It takes neither a pilot or rocket scientist to figure out what was happening. Yes, I did put my date of birth on my resume because my age would have been determined eventually. Search my other posts on that subject.

Good luck with your job search.

 

[upndsky]

Just be careful about dropping in uninvited. The person doing the hiring is already flooded with resumes, faxes and phone calls. To suddenly have someone show up begging for a job may put him/her off. I would check the company's web site, if there is one, about hiring procedures and follow them.

That's not to say dropping in doesn't work because it did for a friend of mine. Just know that it could potentially hurt your chances. Then again, what do you have to lose. To find a job in this business, you have to fling a lot of sh!t at the wall. Most of it will fall off but some of it will stick. Good luck.

 

[skydrvr]

For what it is worth....You are correct what some regionals have worked so hard to improve, and have done so, the folks at Mesa have turned the regional pilot in the opposite direction in which we were going.... it is your choice.

A company called International Jets is hiring out of (Cennt. Airport I believe) Englewood, CO. It is a Charter and Air Amb. company. Two weeks on two weeks off. Does NOT pay well but the longevity of this company is on the up and up...GROWING!!

In my opinion there are much better companys than the one in which you are inquiring.

Good Luck!

 

[rsnodg]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their advice. I started down the CFI path here in Portland, OR. The market here is dismal. Lots of CFI's and few students. So I dropped the idea because of the expense and just kept flying. I have been trying to get on with the 135 operations but have had no luck. My wifes getting tired of all the money I've spent. My thinking was one last program that could get me on an airline sooner rather than later.

 

[utahpilot]

for what it's worth, Airnet is hiring as per the message on 1877-airnet-6 (I think, check www.airnet.com) seems like you're right where they hire at. of course, you need an in

a few weeks ago Ameriflight had a Lance position advertised

www.ameriflight.com


good luck

 

[skydrvr]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their advice. I started down the CFI path here in Portland, OR. The market here is dismal. Lots of CFI's and few students. So I dropped the idea because of the expense and just kept flying. I have been trying to get on with the 135 operations but have had no luck. My wifes getting tired of all the money I've spent. My thinking was one last program that could get me on an airline sooner rather than later.

ONE OTHER THING ...Understand that if there was ever a bad time to be in the industry now is that time. If your wife has the patience there are many a corporate job that will hire you. But...as I said before the pay will be not so good again look into air ambulance. Its hard work but the pay is not too bad and the benefitts are pretty good. Very demanding but yet a very rewarding job.

Good Luck

 

[WrightAvia]

Corporate doesn't pay good? Dude, try starting out at Alliant Energy at better than 60,000 a year right seat in the King Air 350. You can bet that there are better than 500 resumes over there right now also.

My friend that manages the hawkers over at a fortune 500 company, is getting 12,000 hour hawker typed pilots walking resumes in for right/left seat jobs.

There may be some jobs in corporate that don't pay that much to right seat in...but even those are going to be pretty guarded right now.

I offered to contract fill in at a place that has a King Air 350 and is getting a jet. I know the captain pretty good as well as the full time copilot. The captain said he's got "resumes up the WAZOO!".

If you think that it's that easy to just get a low paying corporate job...please list those jobs here for all to see.

If your wife has the patience there are many a corporate job that will hire you. But...as I said before the pay will be not so good

 

[bobbysamd]

Bad Corporate Pay?? I ... don't .. think .. so.

[T]here are many a corporate job that will hire you. But...as I said before the pay will be not so good . . .

It may depend on the situation, but I don't think that's true at all.

I know of corporate pilots who make $50K+, and with good health and other benies. That doesn't sound like altogether bad money to me, not to mention the fact that many corporate pilots fly to all kinds of interesting places and build international experience. Sounds like a great job to me. Corporate jobs take some doing to get, but seem like they're worth it once you get them.

You know, as I think about it more, maybe corporate might be a good direction for you, though it may take a while to land the right job. Given your situation and understanding it well, I feel that it may be worthwhile to give corporate some thought instead of trying for the commuters.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[skydrvr]

Re: Bad Corporate Pay?? I ... don't .. think .. so.

It may depend on the situation, but I don't think that's true at all.

I know of corporate pilots who make $50K+, and with good health and other benies. That doesn't sound like altogether bad money to me, not to mention the fact that many corporate pilots fly to all kinds of interesting places and build international experience. Sounds like a great job to me. Corporate jobs take some doing to get, but seem like they're worth it once you get them.

You know, as I think about it more, maybe corporate might be a good direction for you, though it may take a while to land the right job. Given your situation and understanding it well, I feel that it may be worthwhile to give corporate some thought instead of trying for the commuters.

Good luck with your plans.

Let me rephrase....Many a good job as a Corporate Pilot with great pay....but many with not so good....with the potential to be great pay.