Mesa Go'in Solo.....Hawaii Here they come!!!!

[pilot772]

mesa is not paying the leases anymore on the do-jets. part of DAL banctrptcy.

 

[Spinplate]

Hope it works out!

 

[RJP]

This is a fun thread. "How they gonna get them jets all the way out there?" "What about rafts?" I am looking forward to seeing the pig with the lipstick and lei though.

Bottom line is that if they actually show up in CRJs, they're going to find that there's almost no gate space at OGG and HNL. All three carriers out here are struggling to fill airplanes (and we've only got 37 seats for god's sake)

Island Air's had trouble finding pilots over the past couple of years so if Mesa comes and doesn't offer more $$ (which is apparently doubtful), they'd better bring a chartered 767 full of pilots from the mainland with them.

 

[av8tortype]

The disclaimer is required by federal law.

It's not required just prudent ... Known as a "Safe Harbor Statement" companies use it to protect them from investors who want to come back and sue.

 

[av8tortype]

Here's what Prudential's analyst says:

09:05am EDT 23-Sep-05 Prudential Equity Group, LLC
MESA: MESA TO ESTABLISH NEW HAWAIIAN AIRLINE. LOWERING PRICE TARGET.
PRUDENTIAL EQUITY GROUP September 23, 2005


Mesa Air Group (MESA - $7.96) -- NASDAQ
* MESA announced this morning that it is establishing an independent
inter-island Hawaiian airline with service to begin in the first quarter of
2006.
* MESA will use regional jets, in competition with the Hawaiian's Boeing
B717 aircraft and Aloha's Boeing B737 aircraft. We believe MESA will most likely
begin with 50-seat CRJ200 aircraft, which should be available at minimal rental
rates.
* We believe MESA will create an independent entity, together with financial
partners, and will have only a portion of the financial risk. As such we doubt
this operation will be a major drain on MESA earnings.
* We believe that the new entity will generate substantial losses, and we
doubt its ultimate success. As a result, we think the street will view this
project negatively.
* We are reducing our price target from $13 to $7. We see little chance that
investors will find much to cheer in this idea and that analysts may draw,
although incorrectly, some parallels to FLYI's effort as an independent carrier.
As such, we think that shares will trade at roughly today's price or slightly
lower for the foreseeable future. We are keeping our Neutral Weight rating
because we think there will be, over the next several months, positive
developments at MESA stemming from the Delta bankruptcy and Mesa's new
relationship with Delta.

 

[LDavid]

This is a fun thread. "How they gonna get them jets all the way out there?" "What about rafts?" I am looking forward to seeing the pig with the lipstick and lei though.

Bottom line is that if they actually show up in CRJs, they're going to find that there's almost no gate space at OGG and HNL. All three carriers out here are struggling to fill airplanes (and we've only got 37 seats for god's sake)

Island Air's had trouble finding pilots over the past couple of years so if Mesa comes and doesn't offer more $$ (which is apparently doubtful), they'd better bring a chartered 767 full of pilots from the mainland with them.

Island Air can't find pilots because 1. Nobody can afford to fly out on thier own dime for an interview. 2. No pay or accomodations for training. 3. You have to live in a tent on the beach until you make captain.

 

[nimtz]

More info:

http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/23/news/index1.html

Am I the only one who thinks this same article could be at www.theonion.com

 

[psysicx]

If you go to realtor.com you can find condos cheap. They might be small but who cares you should be at the beach most of time.

 

[igneousy2]

1. Longest overwater portion is about 30 miles from shore...you don't come close to the 50 mile rule.

2. Mesa will get pilots the same way Eagle gets pilots for "the rock" they get assigned it during new hire class or displaced to it during furloughs.

3. I hope the Mesa MEC is on top of this. Hopefully they have the opportunity to negotiate some work rules or the Mesa pilots that come out here are going to be hurting. 1 hour would probably be the longest possible leg time. imagine taking 12 hours to get 5 hours of pay...that's what it's like flying in Hawaii. I would bet on 10 leg days and 12 day off months for line holders that come from Mesa to Hawaii.

later

 

[Taco Rocket]

1. Longest overwater portion is about 30 miles from shore...you don't come close to the 50 mile rule.

2. Mesa will get pilots the same way Eagle gets pilots for "the rock" they get assigned it during new hire class or displaced to it during furloughs.

3. I hope the Mesa MEC is on top of this. Hopefully they have the opportunity to negotiate some work rules or the Mesa pilots that come out here are going to be hurting. 1 hour would probably be the longest possible leg time. imagine taking 12 hours to get 5 hours of pay...that's what it's like flying in Hawaii. I would bet on 10 leg days and 12 day off months for line holders that come from Mesa to Hawaii.

later

It can't be any worse than flying in this "Big Mesa" US/HP system with CLT-GSO and CLT-GSP all day. I have done 7 leg days in the Taco Rocket out of CLT for 5 hours pay (if nothing cancels). Moving to HI would be a dream for many of our pilots but as others have said it would be hard to make ends meet there on our salaries. But having said that JO will still make it work. Most of our guys don't like him but will acknoweldge he is a hell of a businessman, so if he thinks this will work he will probably make money.

 

[Earl Williams]

"Most of our guys don't like him but will acknoweldge he is a hell of a businessman"

Bernie Ebbers, Ken Lay, and Dennis Kozlowski were also deemed as great businessmen...and look where that got them and their employees. Let's not forget that JO was kicked off Wall Street for securities fraud (which I believe makes him a felon).

 

[RP170]

"Most of our guys don't like him but will acknoweldge he is a hell of a businessman"

Bernie Ebbers, Ken Lay, and Dennis Kozlowski were also deemed as great businessmen...and look where that got them and their employees. Let's not forget that JO was kicked off Wall Street for securities fraud (which I believe makes him a felon).

This is true. Why would anyone in their right mind want to go work for someone that is a felon, especially in the business sense? People need to do some research before going to work for Mesa.

 

[wheelsup]

I have done 7 leg days in the Taco Rocket out of CLT for 5 hours pay (if nothing cancels).

That sucks. I'm glad I get paid for "cancels".

JO is a good businessman though. I'm sure he wouldn't do anything that would cause the company to lose $$, that's not like him. Unless he's looking for a tax write off...

~wheelsup

 

[FR8mastr]

Hell of a business man? I will grant you he is a great salesman. All his business is cost plus, how can you not make money. Treat employees like crap, then get a contract with a guaranteed profit. I dont blame JO except for the treating employees like crap. I blame the large carriers for making this guy rich on the backs of labor.

Yes I know there is a MESA airlines that actually operates as Mesa, but it was there before JO

 

[flyNhawaiian767]

Thi is bad news for Aloha and Hawaiian. It's really bad news for Fly Hi and Island Air. Given a choice, most people here prefer the jet; that's why Aloha and Hawaiian have lost money flying them interisland for decades even when more efficient alternatives were available.

Mesa probably wants to come to Hawaii because DOT statistics say the state has had the highest (and most rapid) average fare increases in the nation during the past three years. Aloha's in Bankruptcy, Hawaiian just emerged, and according to Island Air's DOT filing for larger aircraft, they have yet to break even after more than a year of "independent" operation. Now FlyHi has delayed their launch date. For an airline like Mesa with a lot of cash in the bank and a small jet fleet, it's possible to buy market share and sustain a long fare war.

There is a growing surplus of CRJs. Despearate leasing companies are trying to unload them on very favorable terms. If Mesa offers pilot jobs locally, they will pretty much be able to take their pick of anyone not currently operating Boeing equipment. Even if the wages are crap, guys here will take anything for twin jet time.

The last time there were four brands in this market (Aloha, Hawaiian, Discovery and Mahalo) fares dropped as low as $25.00. Everybody lost a lot of money.
Does Mesa do PFT?

 

[Hawaiiansmurf]

Island Air's had trouble finding pilots over the past couple of years so if Mesa comes and doesn't offer more $$ (which is apparently doubtful), they'd better bring a chartered 767 full of pilots from the mainland with them.

...and start offering lunch for the interviews (no brown-bags)

 

[Spinplate]

At least there is more stability at Mesa right now than others. The pay does suck 1st year as does everywhere else. Upgrade time in CRJ is just under 2yrs so if you look at it that way, Mesa isnt the worst. 1st year Capt. or 3rd year FO....... whats better pay?? Hope they find pilots/employees in Hawaii to fill the slots.

PS. Rita is a whore

 

[propsarebest]

Has YV mentioned which RJ they are planning to use? Have they found a home for the ERJ's yet?

I know SOME of the CL-600's are gonna be used for the DL codeshare, right?

 

[mdanno808]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/


First year pay sucks? So does 2,3,4,5 etc. The pay at Mesa is really really bad. You will not be able to live off of pay like this unless you are from here, and have somewhere to stay (ie mom and pops house).

As for realtors.com, and the "cheap condo's available" there are no cheap anything's in Hawaii. The only place's you'll be able to afford on Mesa Wages are area's that I wouldn't want to live, unless you want your apartment building to be featured on Dog the Bounty hunter.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/section/homes

Check out the chart labled Oahu Single Family Monthly rent. That says it all.

 

[Relic01]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/


First year pay sucks? So does 2,3,4,5 etc. The pay at Mesa is really really bad. You will not be able to live off of pay like this unless you are from here, and have somewhere to stay (ie mom and pops house).

As for realtors.com, and the "cheap condo's available" there are no cheap anything's in Hawaii. The only place's you'll be able to afford on Mesa Wages are area's that I wouldn't want to live, unless you want your apartment building to be featured on Dog the Bounty hunter.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/section/homes


Check out the chart labled Oahu Single Family Monthly rent. That says it all.

Looking through the classified, the population isn't so higher compensated compared to mainland as I would expect with all the talk about cost. There are $8 jobs and etc in the paper, how the hell do these people live. How d people live in san diego which has higher cost than Hawaii. People adapt and learn to live within their means. However, I contemplate more senior folks bidding to the big island.

I don't know what the specifics are and why JO wants to go to the big island but I do know that this is a bold move. It is make or break time. I'll be watching from the sidelines.

Pitch, Power, Trim forever.

 

[mdanno808]

Regardless of what does happen, it will be interesting. New Airline name, new investors, so who will be flying the planes? Mesa pilot's, or new hires at airline x?

 

[ImRickJames]

Regardless of what does happen, it will be interesting. New Airline name, new investors, so who will be flying the planes? Mesa pilot's, or new hires at airline x?

Due to the last contract bashing, the only positive note was that a new Scope Clause that does not permit any alter-ego airline. So this new venture will have to be under the Mesa Air Group umbrella, could be a different certificate, but all rights to fly aircraft will be with the current Mesa seniority list. There will be quite a few happy pilots with this because there are a few that are from Hawaii or commute from there.

 

[surplus1]

Why is everyone so negative? Is there some reason why Mesa should not enter this market if it wants to?

Sounds a lot like the Hawiian and Aloha pilots trying to protect their turf.

 

[mdanno808]

Why is everyone so negative? Is there some reason why Mesa should not enter this market if it wants to?

Sounds a lot like the Hawiian and Aloha pilots trying to protect their turf.

Of course. The pilot's are concerned because the interisland market is flooded, and has not been all that profitable to begin with. Enter Mesa, who will pay their employee's MacDonald's wages, and lower ticket prices to an all time low. If, as a result of this, AQ and HAL lose money, they are probably going to come to ALPA for concessions. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/53/17/

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/ .

Yes, that's right, a 3rd year 717 FO makes more than an 11 year captain at Mesa.

The Hawaiian and Aloha pilot's are worried, because it may drag their pay down. It may cost job's. Then again, who knows what will happen.

 

[dash8driver]

Looking through the classified, the population isn't so higher compensated compared to mainland as I would expect with all the talk about cost. There are $8 jobs and etc in the paper, how the hell do these people live. How d people live in san diego which has higher cost than Hawaii. People adapt and learn to live within their means. However, I contemplate more senior folks bidding to the big island.

I don't know what the specifics are and why JO wants to go to the big island but I do know that this is a bold move. It is make or break time. I'll be watching from the sidelines.

Pitch, Power, Trim forever.

you're right on the general level of compensation being roughly the same.
keep in mind we're talking about people relocating to an area for these wages. not many people move to SD, SFO or other high cost areas for jobs in the newspaper paying low wages. these jobs are usually taken by the people who are already living there. a lot of people who take these jobs are taking them as their 2nd or 3rd jobs... and people that are living "on their own" are usually packed in houses with roommates. one way people cope with living in high cost areas in the mainland, is they keep driving outward til they find a cheaper area to live, and drive into the city from there. well, unless you're aquaman you cant do that in hawaii.

the other, very common way people make it work in hawaii is by living with parents. i dont know if there is a chart online with the average age of people living with their parents in hawaii, but i can tell you its much, higher than in the mainland. its not uncommon for people in their 30's and 40's to still live with their parents. its even common to have a family and still live with your parents.

 

[RJP]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/


First year pay sucks? So does 2,3,4,5 etc. The pay at Mesa is really really bad. You will not be able to live off of pay like this unless you are from here, and have somewhere to stay (ie mom and pops house).

You think those pay scales suck. Check out what they offer on the mesa-air.com careers section.

Compensation
Pilots are paid per flight hour as negotiated between the Air Line Pilots Association and the Company in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act.**********The Contract stipulates minimum pay of 70 hours per 28-day bid period and pilots are paid every two weeks.**********Current first year First Officer pay is $18.15 per flight hour for turboprops and $20.43 per flight hour for Regional Jets.

Ouch! The worst part is that the FO scale on airlinepilotpay.com tops at five years at $25. That's less than second year at WP.

Then there's this:

Relocation
Mesa Air Group pilots are initially assigned to a domicile as needed by the Company operations.**********Relocation is at the employee’s expense.

It's going to be a pretty difficult sell when you include the moving costs. But at least there are reportedly "cheap condos" here in HI or the elusive mud huts that I'm still looking for.

 

[islandhopper]

Mesa Airlines has finally showed their hand at attempting to aquire Aloha Airlines via "whatever means necessary". Mesa's recent announcment to begin inter-island service with 50 seat RJ's and their inherantly high cost per seat mile, (CSM) along with crews being paid on Mesa wages is ludicrous to begin with. The regional jet is not now, and never was intended to be a mainline aircraft. The RJ with is high CSM is typically operated on a guaranteed "fee per departure" basis. There will be no guaranteed revenue for an independant Mesa in Hawaii unless they announce a full on United Express, America West Express, or Delta Connection codeshare. Mesa will LOSE MONEY.

Mesa's real intentions can only be to scare and intimidate away Aloha's recently announced investors, the California based Yucaipa Group and AAIG. This is curiously reminiscent of the recent hostile takeover attempt of ACA by Mesa less than two years ago, only the irony is so thick it borders on the humorous. Mesa must be stopped from aquiring the ALO certificate and our narrow body ETOPS fleet. This is Mesa's real intention. Make no doubt about it.

 

[RP170]

At least there is more stability at Mesa right now than others. The pay does suck 1st year as does everywhere else. Upgrade time in CRJ is just under 2yrs so if you look at it that way, Mesa isnt the worst. 1st year Capt. or 3rd year FO....... whats better pay?? Hope they find pilots/employees in Hawaii to fill the slots.

PS. Rita is a whore

Pack your bags. I'll bet you'll be one of the displaced ones to go since you are a new hire. I guess the PHX-HNL commute would be about the same as the PHX-IAD commute you are doing now though.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Mesa Airlines has finally showed their hand at attempting to aquire Aloha Airlines via "whatever means necessary". Mesa's recent announcment to begin inter-island service with 50 seat RJ's and their inherantly high cost per seat mile, (CSM) along with crews being paid on Mesa wages is ludicrous to begin with. The regional jet is not now, and never was intended to be a mainline aircraft. The RJ with is high CSM is typically operated on a guaranteed "fee per departure" basis. There will be no guaranteed revenue for an independant Mesa in Hawaii unless they announce a full on United Express, America West Express, or Delta Connection codeshare. Mesa will LOSE MONEY.

Mesa's real intentions can only be to scare and intimidate away Aloha's recently announced investors, the California based Yucaipa Group and AAIG. This is curiously reminiscent of the recent hostile takeover attempt of ACA by Mesa less than two years ago, only the irony is so thick it borders on the humorous. Mesa must be stopped from aquiring the ALO certificate and our narrow body ETOPS fleet. This is Mesa's real intention. Make no doubt about it.

That's precisely why JO will not lose money: I'm sure he will have some sort of revenue from HP/US, UA, or some other fee per departure deal. He has repeatedly embraced this business model -- why would he do anything else?

And after CCAir there's no way, IMHO, that he would ever acquire another airline. His real goal may well be to put you guys out of business and acquire the assets (like Midway) but he's not going to pick up planes and pilots in a merger (like CCAir.)

 

[Taco Rocket]

Why is everyone so negative? Is there some reason why Mesa should not enter this market if it wants to?

Sounds a lot like the Hawiian and Aloha pilots trying to protect their turf.

Sure!

And for those who ridicule my statement about JO being a good businessman, isn't this what it's all about? Growing your company, providing value for your shareholders and making a profit? Nobody gives a S about "the industry" or "the bar" other than the pilots. To think otherwise is fantasy.

And FWIW our newest contract is a STEP UP from what we had. But then again that is another discussion. But I'll throw one more grenade: we have been ALPA for years and years. If JO and his industrial destruction is so important, who dropped the ball?