Mesa Contract

[KnightwhosaysNi]

Is it possible (or easy) to change domiciles at Mesa? Also, how long are equipment freezes once you bid or are assigned an aircraft? Just curious Thanks

 

[Flycatcher99]

I'll take a stab at your questions...

Under the new contract, movement between equipment is a bit more difficult now than it used to be. Beech and Dash F/O's can only bid upward into captain positions in their equipment, or into jet captain positions (they cannot go from prop F/O to jet F/O). Prop captains can only bid into jet captain positions.

Prop F/O's who have upgraded to prop captains are locked in for 18 months. Those who have completed jet captain training are locked into those positions for 36 months.

As for domicile movement, I think there is quite a bit of movement between prop domiciles, with many Air Midwest Beech pilots making the move up into the Mesa jets, due to the new United deal. I'm not sure how much movement there is between jet domiciles, but there has already been some reshuffling (and likely will continue to be), with Philly reopening as a jet base, and Denver going fairly junior in the CRJ.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Mesa is a major?

 

[the turtle]

PHX (CRJ)
DCA (ERJ)
are senior

PHL(CRJ)
CLT(ERJ)
are junior

DEN
to soon to tell

hope this helps

 

[b747dogg]

I have a buddy with a mesa class date. Just woundering what are the upgrade times on the different equipment? His choices are mesa RJs or Dash 8 or Air Midwest 1900. Whats the better deal for those in the know?

Thanks

 

[Flycatcher99]

Mesa upgrades

With the new United deal, Mesa is looking to add around 55 jets to the fleet, beyond the original growth plans, so I would imagine there will be some good movement for a while.

Obviously, the quickest upgrades will be in the Beeches at AMW, with the lower seniority. However, there will probably be other opportunities if one is in another aircraft. As I posted above, the new contract does not allow a person to bid from a prop F/O position to a jet F/O position, nor does it allow a Beech F/O or Dash F/O to bid to the captain seat of the other turboprop, nor does it allow a jet F/O to bid to any prop position. This means that only Beech F/O's can fill Beech captain seats, and only Dash F/O's can fill Dash captain seats, which might help each upgrade a bit quicker.

Another consideration is that the 18-month seat lock for new Beech and Dash captains will allow more junior jet F/O's to get the jump on upgrading to jet captain ahead of prop folk.

These are just some rambling thoughts. Actually, it's all pretty convoluted, and people I've spoken with at Mesa aren't even sure how it will all play out. Whatever equipment your buddy starts in, it's a good time to get into Mesa, as it's now entering a cycle of real movement in all equipment types.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

Mesa pilots--How are the trips in the 1900? Are there overnights or is it mostly out and backs? How about the jet? 2, 3, 4 day trips or what? Also, do any fleets have high speed or standup lines? Thanks for any info. Also B1900 pilots--How do you like flying the 1900?

 

[p.b.]

Can anyone answer the above question for the dash? How much chance does a new hire have to get phx in the Dash8?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Mesa is a regional. Post questions about Mesa on the appropriate forum.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

no kidding jacka@@ It is on there by mistake

 

[the turtle]

Dash 8 in PHX is senior. Not certain about the FO's.

1900 flying was fun, less so for FO's since they do a lot of work for little pay, flying is all day trips (8-12 hr days, 6-10 legs). However, with the additional FLA flying the sched's could be different, we haven't seen them yet.

Jet trips have stand-up overnights, usually your whole line is comprised of them. Additionally, 2, 3, 4 and many FIVE day trips (ouch). Lately, you'll see a 28 day sched of four or five day trips with three, four or five days off between. Hopefully, with additional staffing those five days will go away.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

Thanks for the info. Do you know how many days off someone can expect with a line in the 1900? Is it always down around 10 or can someone with some seniority somewhere have some more? Also, with the jet stand-up lines, if you are a commuter, does the company provide a hotel for you during the day? I know at Comair they do and was just curious.

 

[the turtle]

1900 hardlines usually have between 12-15 days off per BID. Mesa scheduals run every 28 days, not per month. 13 bids per year.

As to the stand-up overnight question, this is MESA...they give you nothing.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

Thanks again Turtle
Are there any junior 1900 domiciles in FLA? Or where are the most junior 1900 bases? I know it changes often, but wondered if there are any consistently junior ones.

 

[blzr]

All you former UAL and U guys will be in for a real shock. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post on here after your first month. But, be suer to put it under REGIONALS as you are no longer with a major.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

No kidding? Mesa is not a major? Thanks for the info Sherlock

 

[stillaboo]

be suer to put it under REGIONALS as you are no longer with a major.

I'm sure they appreciate the reminder, 'blzr'. No need to beat a man while he's down, brotha'!

 

[the turtle]

junior 1900 base in Fla would be TPA or PNS (Panama City)

the other junior bases would probably be PIT and DUJ (DuBois, Pa.)

And BLZR is right. Please post later about how nasty life at Mesa will be for you U and UA guys....I guess he's under the impression that you're a bunch of spoiled MAJOR airline pilots and that you'll be 'slummin.

How classy.

 

[General Lee]

Panama City, FL is PFN---not PNS.

 

[dondk]

As a former 1900 driver for AMW...

12-15 days off? some locations, but system wide it is 10-12 with the "occassional" 12 or better and that is real senior.

Most AMW is day trips, start early.. end late... Do not consider commuting as that is next to impossible. The 2-3 day trips in a 1900 is a bear.. try stuffing your flight bag and overnight into the closet and carrying it from aircraft to aircraft. 6-8 leg's are the norm but they also have some 1/2 day trips which you start early and end by lunch or start late afternoon and end by midnight.

The 1900 is a blast and many of the crews are really cool.

Now.. the junior bases also have reserve. TPA, PIT and others are reserve bases with a few hard lines. Reserve at AMW (or Mesa) is not pleasant (not like it is anywhere else), but you can plan on spending more time deadheading than flying in a month if that gives you a clue.. Hence, that is why they are real junior.

 

[Intruder One]

Just a reminder........Jet Blue is not a major either but they are on this post also,and the way mesa is growing they will probably be a major as soon as Jet Blue maybe sooner.

 

[stillaboo]

Just a reminder........Jet Blue is not a major either but they are on this post also . . .

So a 'major' isn't any airline that flies jets that are 5 across in coach or better?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Just a reminder........Jet Blue is not a major either but they are on this post also,and the way mesa is growing they will probably be a major as soon as Jet Blue maybe sooner.

I made that mistake before also. But, if you will notice there is a category for regionals, which is where posts for Mesa Airlines belong. There is no category for Jet Blue, which should be categorized as a national. Jet Blue definately fits the major boards better than it would in the regionals. Our current system of categorizing airlines needs an overhaul.

I didn't consult my crystal ball before I posted that this thread was in the wrong category. If I had, I would not have bothered and KnightwhosaysNi would not have got his panties in a bunch.

 

[KnightwhosaysNi]

It is obvious Mesa is not a major. Nobody in there right mind needs to have that explained to them. I was just curious as to how many times I needed to say that this was under the majors by mistake. One has to scroll up a bit and see we are beating a dead horse with this talk. Thanks to all with the good info-I appreciate it.

 

[Intruder One]

Just one more note on this major thing.........when you reach 1 billion in sales you are a major.Size of A/C or any other factor does not matter.Not that I'm defending Mesa or anyone one else
but when you get those numbers you are a major.....period.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Just one more note on this major thing.........when you reach 1 billion in sales you are a major.Size of A/C or any other factor does not matter.Not that I'm defending Mesa or anyone one else
but when you get those numbers you are a major.....period.

That milestone for airlines was created a long time ago and like many things in aviation they rarely, if ever, get revised. No offense to anyone who works for a regional, but that is why the current system of categorizing airlines is in need of an overhaul.

 

[Caveman]

O.k., GuppieDriver, since you don't like the $1B mark as a legitimate gauge to identify 'majors', how would you delineate it?

 

[Intruder One]

I didn't set those guidelines.........if you don't like the way it is write your congressman or whoever.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Hate to bring this thread back to the top, but you asked.

From the ALPA website:


Carrier Groupings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Major Large Jet Carriers: Airlines with Revenue > $ 1 Billion and aircraft with over 100 seats

National Carriers: Airlines with Revenue < $ 1 Billion and aircraft with over 100 seats; may also includes charter service carriers

Express Carriers: Airlines that provide feed for Major and/or National Carrier; aircraft under 100 seats

Canadian Carriers: Canadian Carriers that meet National, Express or Cargo carrier criteria

Cargo Carriers: provide cargo airlift; includes carriers that may also provide charter services in addition to cargo airlift

 

[stillaboo]

It is surprising that a mainline dominated union would classify anyone who flies aircraft of less than 100 seats as "Express".

Be careful what you wish for. The CRJ-1000 could be right around the corner, not to mention a 'regional' getting the EMB-190. (not that this would be a good thing)