Mesa and Freedom Air Pilots

[bogberto]

185: the Freedumb pilots are going nowhere.

The Mesa pilots are just getting more RJ, which reduces the amount of mainline jobs, which means we're stuck here working at this company for a lot longer than any of us ever wanted.

I'd rather fly a 737 or 'Bus than sit in the RJ for the rest of my life.

 

[185flyer]

Boy, you guys can be harsh. I wish some of you would take the time to read the posts before spouting back with the typical fluff. Well, Mesa and Freedom will merge, so you can't really argue that one is better/worse off than the other. I don't know how you could argue that growth is bad for employees (read pilots and non-pilots) and the shareholders. No one wants to answer my question about this. Why would a regional pass on flying more jets?


Taking away mainline jobs? That's a whole other ballgame that I don't want to start.

 

[185flyer]

DDpaysoff - so bad aren't you? So what if you're a CRJ 200 FO? You know everything now, eh. Not sure why you respond the way you do. I'm not telling you how to fly a plane. Why do you think you understand more than anyone else? That's what I'd like to hear from you.

 

[bogberto]

Boy, you guys can be harsh. Well, Mesa and Freedom will merge, so you can't really argue that one is better/worse off than the other. I don't know how you could argue that growth is bad for employees (read pilots and non-pilots) and the shareholders. No one wants to answer my question about this. Why would a regional pass on flying more jets?

OK, I'm not blasting you, I'm simply letting you know that you're not understanding this. I am a Mesa pilot, and we have a crappy new contract because of Freedumb. It was impossible for us to bargain for better wages, per diem, QOL, etc, when the Freedumb types were doing it for a lot less than what we wanted (which was also very affordable). When we signed the contract, we got the Freedomb aircraft back where they belong (at Mesa). Don't forget: Freedumb is and always has been part of Mesa Air Group. Siblings should not be used to fight against each other. That said, Mesa is worse off thanks to Freedom. Our per diem, our payrates, our days off, everything is bad because of Freedom.

How is growth bad? When there is ZERO quality of life to your job, and it's that way because management claims that it's a requirement of growth, that is bad. OK great so maybe I can be a Captain on a CR9. But that still means there will be an FO on that same aircraft who will be stuck in that right seat for a long time and at crappy wages. Are you really gaining anything when those new jobs you're creating are paying less than a cashier job at McDonalds? We say no, not for someone who has invested a lot of time and money into themselves.

Taking away mainline jobs? That's a whole other ballgame that I don't want to start.

No worries, the game has been going on for a long time. When we at Mesa heard about our CR7 and CR9 order in 2001, we were all excited about it. Now, many of us do not want them anymore. An aircraft that can hold 90 seats belongs at a mainline carrier, flown by mainline pilots, not 300 hour pilots.

But yes, that is a completely different ballgame for another time.

Hope this helps.

-B

 

[trfenwyd]

I'd rather fly a 737 or 'Bus than sit in the RJ for the rest of my life. [/B]

At least you're flying. I know about 2000 pilots who would LOVE to take your place.

 

[bogberto]

At least you're flying. I know about 2000 pilots who would LOVE to take your place.

You missed my point. If I had it my way, they would be flying.

I didn't say I want 737s and Busses at regionals. I want them and their flying back at the mainline carrier.

 

[CWASaab]

185 you really are quite incorrect.

What happened at Mesa with Freedom has had a tremendous impact in the negotiations at other carriers.

To be more specific, the company I work for, Mesaba Airlines, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mesaba Holdings (I think it is now going to be called MAIR Holdings) is 3 years into section 6 negotiations. Little progress is currently being made, despite having been under mediated negotiations for about a year now.

That is not Mesa's fault exactly, but our managment has said to the pilot group repeatedly during recurrent ground schools that our new contract must be competitive with Mesa. That would be a step backwards for us.

Our over-paid and under-educated Senior Leadership Team even went so far as to go out and purchase a non-ALPA airline. This appears obvious to us who work here as a threat that we are replaceable if we get too expensive, much like Freedom was to Mesa.

In the mean time this airline that our SLT claims is well run and a great opportunity has been bleeding our financial performance, to the tune of about 2 million a month. Their RASM is $.193 thanks to the EAS program, while their CASM is $.262. Yeah, thats one hell of a greatly run company, and such an opportunity.

Our Negotiators have faced this tactic by informing the Company, at the table, that without scope that eliminates the threat of an alter-ego, there is not going to be a ratification. I stand behind the Negotiating Team and the MEC 100% on this issue as do just about all of us here.

I know we are not the only pilot group hearing the "we must compete with Mesa" mantra from the executive offices, and we are not the only group facing an alter-ego. What happened at Mesa with Freedom has become the blueprint for all recent talks. Non-ALPA alter-ego threats have become the latest tactic to keep those flying small jets and turbo-props from acheiving livable wages.

 

[185flyer]

CWASaab,

I can understand that management is going to use any tactic to get what it wants. "Low cost" seems to be the new game nowadays. I don't hear a lot of Southwest bashing out there, but WN also makes up for lower pay through great benefits, something Mesa might be lacking. A friend above said I was completely wrong in that the negotiations at one airline don't affect another. I do believe him now, but where has this so called "pattern negotiations" got the majors?? Each carrier topped the other one until everything came crashing down.

Each carrier's pilot group has to do what's best for themselves. HP has been in negotiations for several years. They want AMR or Delta pay, but it's never going to happen. They also want a pension. How can you ask for a pension when the rest of HP's employees don't have one? The non-pilot folks are in the same wage boat. If the pilots of HP are low paid, then the folks at the gate and at the lower levels of corporate are also lower paid. Not sure what you mean by under-educated? I busted my butt in grad school for an MBA, just like you busted your butt to make a career out of flying.

It is good to see management facing up to their own hypocrisies. AMR and Delta certainly felt the backlash of lavishing their top dogs with bonuses and guaranteed pensions. I'm on the corporate side, but I also fly for fun so I'm not out here to bash pilots.

Glad to have a level headed discussion.

 

[Brother Francis]

What happened at Mesa with Freedom has become the blueprint for all recent talks.

Precicely

 

[AV8700]

No worries, the game has been going on for a long time. When we at Mesa heard about our CR7 and CR9 order in 2001, we were all excited about it. Now, many of us do not want them anymore. An aircraft that can hold 90 seats belongs at a mainline carrier, flown by mainline pilots, not 300 hour pilots.

....but you will bid the aircraft right.