Mesa and Freedom Air Pilots

[crj579]

There are a few things that need to be pointed out when it comes to Freedom. Instead of getting a side letter to the current contract when it came to getting the 700/900's online, the ALPA leadership drug their feet, asking for wages higher than America West pilots made. At the same time Duane Woerth was publicly annoucing that he would not endorse the 900 flying at the regional level. Throw into the mix, USAirways scope clause regarding flying over 70-seats and you have the reason why JO started Freedom. In actuality, Freedoms contract had higher pay. I guess the arguement comes down to where do you want to draw the line when it comes to what type of aircraft a regional can fly. I think that there shouldn't be limits to career growth at any company you fly for. Inhouse unions seem to get changes done more quickly and avoid the pressure from a national type of union trying to represent both regionals and majors. JMHO

 

[CWASaab]

185flyer,

I sure didn't mean to imply that you, or even most airline management types, are under-educated, my comment was directed at mesaba's management. So unless you work for XJ, please accept my apologies.

The sad fact is that if you were to join XJ's Senior Leadership Team your MBA would be a 100% increase in the current collective C.V. As of right now we don't even have a single MBA, just one masters degree in the group, a masters of Management and Organizational Development from American University. And that sheepskin isn't even hanging the the biggest office in the G.O.

As far as the contract stuff goes, and despite what my MBA holding older brother thinks of my level of understanding, I do know that Managament's job is to maximize value for the share holders (of which I am one). However the fact that our current wages were negotiated more than six years ago, and that our starting FOs make less than $20,000 flying a four engine jet and top out at about 29K (and we currently have plenty of FOs who have topped out the FO scale) needs to be changed.

All the while the President CEO and Director of Mesaba Holdings, Paul Foley, took a 36% pay raise last year. The SLT here at Mesaba Aviation was equally rewarded for their work. Not only does Foley get plenty of cash, but he commutes from NY and the company pays him extra money to do so. How many airlines out there cover travel and housing expenses for commuting pilots?

I guess my point is that if our SLT were interested in the success of the airline more than the growth of their own bank accounts then they need to step up to the plate, offer us a decent contract with liveable wages and work rules so that we can continue to attract the type of quality people we currently have working in the flight deck.

Oh, and they need to cut the fat at the G.O. I am still waiting to find out why our Mair Holding officers (all two of them) needed to move into seperate offices in downtown MSP. My best guess is they knew that they would be too embarassed to show themselves to the rank and file with all the money they wasted buying that montana based-dark-cloud-on-the-horizon airline to try and scare us.

 

[racerX]

Freedom came into being for one reason...to break scope at AWA...period! If you work there, regardless of when you got hired, you're helping and you don't ride on my plane.

 

[acaTerry]

185flyer,
I have read this thread from start to end, and I agree with the others: I think it would behoove you to step back and be quiet. You are offering opinions on subjects that you know nothing about.
It would be like me going in to a hospital and telling the doctors how easy they have it, how I think a surgery should be performed, etc.
You say you have a right to your opinion, but how can you even formulate an opinion on issues that you are so ignorant about? A 200 hour private pilot spouting off opinions and trying to educate airline pilots who ARE in the thick of it is a waste of time and a confession of stupidity.
I am a military type, and until I got to the airlines, I too thought low of unions. In the military mind, especially the Marines, you did your job and that was that. The job got done, you were taken care of, and that's how it was. The officers had to make sure certain things happened, the NCO's and nonrates made these things happen, and it was all a cooperative and mutually respected relationship.
But something I found out quickly was that a union is necessary in the airlines and that management will thrive on any weakness in a pilot group whether it is their own pilot group or another airlines group that "lowers the bar".
You see, unlike it was in the good ole USMC, people in the upper levels have no respect for the welfare of their subordinates in the airline business. As a staff level NCO, I would see to it that my Marines were fed, rested adeqautely, and equipped. THEN, and only when they "got theirs" would I get mine. This is not so in the airlines. In the airlines, management gets theirs first, then tells you that there is not enough to go around for you. Even if there is plenty to go around, they will tell you that it's too bad because "well, XYZ airline's pilots are doing it for X dollars". Couple this with those who are not even in the job yet telling you "Oh, I'd do it for nothing, I just want to fly a jet". Well, spooge off in your pants for 6 months until the reality of flying a jet, making someone else rich while your wife and kid are wondering how can daddy be gone so much and make no money gets quite old. You have no idea the long, hard, expensive road it takes to get an airline pilot job. Then to be told (and have it published in your state newspaper) that a B757 should max out at $90,000. My brother-in-law got a starting pay offer nearly that at an airline to be a computer programmer! He's only 29!! A pilot is well into their 30's by the time they get a major airline job. Then forced retirement at age 60? How can you pay off the HUGE debt, pay for your house, save for kids college and put into a retirement if you max out at 90 thousand in less than 30 years?
Especially when some kids with low time and NO EXPERIENCE come in and lower the pay you make because they "just want to fly a jet" or "will gladly trade places with you" etc etc. Whores they are....
Please, let those who know what they are talking about educate those who do not. Opinions are worthless until you have some idea what you are talking about. In the meantime, act more like a sponge and try to learn from those who DO know what they are talking about. Perhaps one day it will be YOU who is watching YOUR profession fall apart. See how you feel then. THEN you can give an opinion. In the meantime, to quote a great genius of all times......ZIP IT SCOTTY.....

AND ANOTHER THING....the question about why does a pilot deserve a pension when HP has other groups without one. YOU MUST BE A LIBERAL. Give it all to everyone or no one gets it. How about I don't get to keep my house because someone else out there does not have a house?
Show me a company that gives all it's employees the same package. Pilots are a skilled labor. Rampers, for example, are not a skilled labor. (NO WAY AM I LOWERING YOU RAMPERS, YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) Why doesn't Parker give up his retirement? Use your reason here. Does not work does it? Again, turn off your transmitter and turn on your receiver. Then again, you sound like someone pursuing a management degree. So you probably do not care anyway. Enjoy the 3 houses.

 

[Simon Says]

185flyer,

You may be a smart individual, but you are way out of your league on this subject. Walk in my shoes for a mile and then we will talk.

What I would like to hear is the views of management. Candid and uncensored.

 

[saabservant]

acaTerry:

Thanks so much for speaking for all of us who are fighting the Mesa precedent! I too am living the same dream, for low pay, no time at home, and no retirement. Maybe I should have stayed in the Corps!

We really do need to educate our young aviators who say they will fly for food. They may feel cool for a year, but then they realize this is a career, a profession, and they have sold themselves out. We at XJ won't play that anymore!

Semper Fidelis
(to country, corps, and now my ALPA brothers)

 

[mkelley63]

Hello,

Can some of you Mesa types clue me in on what initial ground school is like at Mesa,ie pay during initial, hotel accomadations,
etc.

Thanks M.K.

P.S. A 200hour private pilot just won't get it guys. Don't waste your key strokes.

 

[acaTerry]

By the looks of your profile, what are you worried about? Looks like gravy for you.

 

[bogberto]

You'll have to ask the United guys about Mesa GS. Apparently they're taking over the slots that were already given to newhires.

 

[68pilot]

Seems like a lot of XJ pilots on here.
PM me if you're interested in HP, maybe I can help.
68pilot

 

[Simon Says]

Whos HP? Is that the code for Mesa?

 

[wscrj]

HP is America West, no affiliation with Mesa other than a codeshare.

YV is Mesa
ZV is Air Midwest
F8 is Freedom

The above 3 comprise the Mesa Air Group. There is a 4th, CC or CCAir, but that certificate is inactive.

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

Could someone please send me a Private Message if they have a current and updated version of the Freedom Pilot list. A list of pilot's who worked at Freedom while it was non-union and not endorsed by ALPA. I only want a list of those pilots.

Thanks in advance.