Mesa and Delta...It's official

[General Lee]

You are mixing up eras, Gee Lee. Western 1987 wasn't the basket case headed straight to the bottom like the S.S. DeltaTitanic is. A more accurate comparison would be to compare Delta to Pan Am circa 1991. What airline has the re$ource$ to bail out this mess AND billions (that's with a b) in pension obligations? Uh, I don't think so. Delta will be part and parceled out just like Pan Am was -- the Atlantic division will go here, the Shuttle will go there, and Song will just ... go. Some pilots might go along with the deal, but I wouldn't hold my breath about the pension thing but not to worry, it'll be bailed out like the steel companies were.

Just hang in there, bro', soon your fondest dream will be reaized and we will be completelly separate companies. Then we'll be competitors. I like our chances.

Ha. Mesa will always be cheaper than you guys, and you guys will eventually work for JO or somebody like him. That is your future. As far as parceling DL, NAH, doubtful. You don't know much about the Western Airlines deal do you? I hear about it every once and awhile from actual ex-Western pilots who moved to ATL. They say they took 40% pay cuts and then almost filed for Chap 11, until DL came in and bought THE WHOLE THING. Grinstein will likely do the same thing. He is staying around to ensure that we have a future, not to be chopped up. He really isn't getting paid much either, and his wife wants to get back to SEA, but he has said repeatedly that he would stay until the end of next year--2006.

As far as Comair becoming our "competitor"----oooh, that scares me, NOT. Your new owner will think that your "high costs"(read wages here) for a regional (you are a regional remember, not a Major) will have to be trimmed to become "competitive." You will get bought by Expressjet or Mesa, and then be their "Biatch." Wait, they may buy you to actually get some "God-like pilots" in their mix...... Yeah right. Just remember what Palumbo says "We haven't failed to plan, and we aren't planning to fail." Keep saying that in your head. He also keeps saying "core asset sales". Say that ten times fast please.

Grinstein, at "In Command" this week (a meeting with management and new captains) alluded to the fact that if we do go Chap 11 the pensions would be dropped (gone) in order to line up new lenders. I think he knows what is going on better than you do. But hey, you do know your Pan Am history......And, Song is actually our best product---according to Reader's Digest. But, you already new that. I think Comair and the CRJs were a close 25th. (bottom 50 during last Xmas)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Grinstein has a plan, and you may not be in it.

General,

Especially for your sale, I sure hope plan B works better than plan A. Did it cross your mind that it just might be better if we weren't in it?

........we will sell core assets in the meantime.

Core assets? You can't be speaking of us. How did we get elevated to such high status overnight? Weren't you telling us just a few days ago how useless we are? Surely you jest.

You guys on the otherhand, should be wondering if Mesa will treat you right.

Let me respond to that by paraphrasing Sir Winston Churchill..... We are prepared to meet Mr. Ornstein. Whether Mr. Ornstein is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting us is another matter.

If Mesa were to buy Comair I think it reasonably safe to anticipate that after a rumble with Comair pilots JO and Mesa will never again be the same. How many days do you think it would take to bring that ck sker to his knees? He'd be on ebay bidding on knee pads in a heartbeat. Don't forget, far bigger fish have already been fried in this skillet.

 

[Nindiri]

GL

I realize that in the heat of an argument it's easy to get frustrated, especially if the other person is irritating you, but why do you always resort to taking cheapshots at other airlines?

 

[General Lee]

General,

Especially for your sale, I sure hope plan B works better than plan A. Did it cross your mind that it just might be better if we weren't in it?



Core assets? You can't be speaking of us. How did we get elevated to such high status overnight? Weren't you telling us just a few days ago how useless we are? Surely you jest.



Let me respond to that by paraphrasing Sir Winston Churchill..... We are prepared to meet Mr. Ornstein. Whether Mr. Ornstein is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting us is another matter.

If Mesa were to buy Comair I think it reasonably safe to anticipate that after a rumble with Comair pilots JO and Mesa will never again be the same. How many days do you think it would take to bring that ck sker to his knees? He'd be on ebay bidding on knee pads in a heartbeat.

Come on now Surplus1, such bravado, just like those United unions..... Right. You will all "take it like a man(wo-man)". Mr. Orenstein will manhandle you guys and you will be crying for the right to fly Beech 1900Cs. I am sick of all of this false bravery (bravado---an excellent SAT word)---we all don't know really what will happen---GG and Palumbo know, not us. As far as plan A versus plan B, do you really know which plan will help you the most? What about us? I think a possible pre-packaged Chap 11 with a sale afterwards might be the works, which could help our debt (selling you and ASA would help immediately---thanks Fred Greed for ordering all of those RJs) and pension problems. A combination with either NW or CAL would be great. No one has the cash to buy pieces of anything right now, except SW, and they don't want INTL stuff or Song. Our Plan B might be your worst nightmare, a marriage with Mesa and JO. To say that GG and Palumbo don't have a specific plan for DL success (in any form---alone or merged) is probably incorrect.


But, the days of "Condom Air, Delta Protection" may be over soon. We will have to have someone else "protect" us----with more money----like CHQ and Mesa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Boy, sure sounds like I pushed your button GL. Chill man, we can't take this stuff too seriously.

 

[General Lee]

Boy, sure sounds like I pushed your button GL. Chill man, we can't take this stuff too seriously.

No, I know. Sorry about that. I really enjoy my job and I hope everything turns out ok. I also have no idea what will happen to you guys, but I thought that "Condom Air, Delta Protection" saying was funny. Have a good night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crashpad]

I understand the Generals' fear and frustration. I feel his pain. Those regionals can really do a lot of damage....ah crud, I thought this was the Major Board! Um...you guys just keep plugging along, you're doing a great job! Long Live Mesa!

 

[jetflyer]

I don't think Delta MERGING with anyone is a for sure thing.

Who would want to merge and add $20+ Billion in debt to their books? I bet even after the sale of Comair/ASA $20+billion in debt will still be there. Time will tell.

Delta has a LOT more debt than Western could have ever imagined having. Delta really is more like Pan Am.

I think there really is a strong possibility that Delta in the future just might be dismantled in Ch 7 and then the pieces will get picked up. This will get rid of all $20+billion in debt for good. Bye bye debt. Sorry banks.

I hope this doesn't happen!! I hope that Delta stays strong and does merge with Continental or Northwest!! Just saying dismantling makes more sense to me UNFORTUNATELY.

Jet

 

[General Lee]

I don't think Delta MERGING with anyone is a for sure thing.

Who would want to merge and add $20+ Billion in debt to their books? I bet even after the sale of Comair/ASA $20+billion in debt will still be there. Time will tell.

Delta has a LOT more debt than Western could have ever imagined having. Delta really is more like Pan Am.

I think there really is a strong possibility that Delta in the future just might be dismantled in Ch 7 and then the pieces will get picked up. This will get rid of all $20+billion in debt for good. Bye bye debt. Sorry banks.

I hope this doesn't happen!! I hope that Delta stays strong and does merge with Continental or Northwest!! Just saying dismantling makes more sense to me UNFORTUNATELY.

Jet

Jet,

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. According to GG at the "incommand seminar" for new Captains, our debt will be decreased substantially with a sale of DCI. He said getting it down to a reasonable level will make it easier to pay off, and he said the pension legislation has a good chance of passing. That said, if we have to go into Chap 11, he alluded to the fact that the pensions would be gone "in order to please lenders." Doesn't sound like a dismantle job to me. What parts again would be dismantled and sold? Ok, the European ops, maybe the Shuttle slots, and what else? And, Delta is more like Pan Am than Western? Were born when Western was around? Come on. Yes, the debt we have is high, primarily due to RJ purchases since 9-11. And, who would want to merge with someone who has $20+ billion debt? No one. That is why we would shed some, either in or out of Chap 11, and then merge. Our ATL hub is the most successful hub in the world, carrying the most pax. CAL or NW would only buy the hub and then start over with nobody there? That makes no sense. I am glad that it MAKES MORE SENSE TO YOU that we would be dismantled first. Have you been hired yet at a DCI carrier Jet? Go for Mesa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

Huh? Que? Taco assembly line for who? Maybe you guys. You think DL would be broken up into pieces? Uh, I don't think so. How did Grinstein do with Western Airlines? Did he cut that up too? Nah. If we are sold it will be as one piece, and we will complement whoever buys us. You guys on the otherhand, should be wondering if Mesa will treat you right. Grinstein has a plan, and you may not be in it. Remember, like Palumbo says....."We don't plan to fail....." and we will sell core assets in the meantime. That is YOU baby. Don't worry, you will be serving burritos before me, and that will make you manager when I get there. Can I get Sunday's off please???

Bye Bye--General Lee

The worst thing about you, GL, and why I cant stand you even a little is that you actually root for the failure of Comair and ASA......its like you would get the greatest kick out of seeing two great companies with so many wonderful people working hard every day for the same goal as you fail, and go away! So sad, if not disgusting! Dont even try to backtrack. You history shows otherwise......Man, were all on the same team, trying to do the same da.mn job ----- moving people from point A to point B for Delta. You defend the CHQ's and Mesa's, yet denounce ASA and Comair and would have sick pleasure at our demise. To quote Newman on a classic Seinfeld episode......."I loaaaaaath you!"

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

I have stayed there for fun, at the Melia Cancun. A glass pyramid structure----really nice resort.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That is a very nice place. We were thinking of trying it. We have been staying at the Palace resorts for the free watersports, tours, and 30% discounts through Sparkfly. Xpu Ha is next on the list.

If we could only stuff a life raft in an RJ. We could probably carry a raft, a slide, a can of "no shark" and about 5 revenue pax. Wonder if that would work.... I hear RJ ETOPS is on the way

 

[jetflyer]

posted on wrong forum so deleted.

 

[bustinmins]

SanJuan,

You post is filled with so much Fog I can't really read into it. I agree that we need to stick together on making our QOL and Pay better. But I disagree with the fact that I do believe Mesa has affected other contracts in the industry. You have to raise the bar, not lower it on each contract. And the last one you signed by 87% didn't raise anything. I put as much blame on ALPA for allowing all this that has happen, they want to keep a strong division between regionals and mainline. And has totally backfired in there face, no way a 90 seat A/c should be flown at a regional. Sad, Sad.
There are some fine pilots over there (MESA), however they are willing to sell their soul to JO in return for more airplanes and fast upgrades.
Good luck over there, I know its tuff being the regional that everyone loves to hate the most.

Not willing to sell our soul - just willing to stop "Freedom" with scope language.

 

[theo]

General,

You are correct, we can't compete with JetBlue on the pay rates. You can't either. On top of that your present infrastructure helps to make you less competitive. That is not your fault.

Let us not forget however, it was ALPA that first low-balled the EMB170 product, not JB. It was not regional pilots that did it, it was mainline pilots at USAirways. Can you name anyone that has lower rates for that equipment than MDA? Remember, the matched the Eagle contract, but they gave up 100% of their longevity, thus putting them all at 1st year pay. You can bet that the JBlue decision was based on that. As far as I know, there are no 1st yr capt's flying 70-seat jets at any regional carrier.

If Delta pilots want to give up their longevity to get a 90-seat airplane, go for it. The $89 JB pay that you quote for the EMB-190 applies to a 12 yr. Capt. Don't forget that JB hasn't even existed for 6 years so there will be no one at that pay rate. Virtually all of their EMB-190 capts can be expected to be pretty close to 1st year pay, which is $71 at present. That's not a pretty picture. Not for you, not for us, not for anyone.

As far as I know, only Mesa has lower pay for a 12 yr Capt in the CRJ-900 = $82. Also courtesy of ALPA. I do not envy your efforts.

Yet in reference to Jet Blue people are lining up at the door to go to work for them, a non union wage lowering airline. Go figure.

 

[CX880]

F - - K!!!!!

This is the absolute WORST thing that can happen to any pilot at Comair/ASA/Skywest/and CHQ! I have seen first hand what having Mesa as a connection carrier for you major partner does to pilot groups at the other regionals. The worst of it is that your contract will be gutted, or you wil watch Mesa grow and grow and grow! At the expense of your company. Get used to the seat your in, and the seniority you have ---- because it probably will not move again for many years! In the case of ASA, upgrade will be 8 - 10 years from your hire date, IMO.

Don't worry in about 4 years Delta will sue Mesa to replace them forcing them into Bankruptcy. Comair will furlough half the pilots, ASA will get a new contract as well as UA flying for ua. Things will work out.