MESA/ACA Ain't Gonna Happen!

[ChinaClipper]

46Driver....

You sir, are definitely correct. Anyone want to know how JO bought CCAir? Stock swap Anyone want to know how JO intended to buy Mesaba a couple years ago? Stock swap. Anyone want to know how WestAir was bought? hmmmnnnn, ACA stands for Atlantic Coast division of WESTAIR, spooky how history repeats itself ....Chesty Puller would be proud....

 

[Captain X]

ALPA merger policy means DOH

ALPA Merger Policy says nothing of the sort.

G. MERGER NEGOTIATIONS
1. The merger representatives of the affected airlines shall meet and commence efforts to arrive at a mutually satisfactory method of integration and compilation of a single acceptable flight deck crew member seniority list no later than sixty (60) days following the Policy Initiation Date. Similarly, in cases where one or more parties to the merger has flight deck crew members with grandfather or similar special seniority rights that are limited as to job classification or status within the flight deck crew, the merger representatives shall commence efforts to arrive at a mutually satisfactory method of integration and compilation of such separate special seniority lists as may be necessary and appropriate to preserve and protect such rights in addition to the flight deck crew member seniority list. (AMENDED - Executive Board May 1998)

2. Nothing herein shall preclude the assembly of more than one list for each of the above classifications where the transfer of major routes or operating authority will be contingent on proceedings separate from the "instant proceeding" and such known contingencies may warrant the future replacement of one list with another.

3. For the purposes of limiting confrontation and expediting the merger process, the President shall, when he deems advisable, appoint a neutral facilitator to assist the merger representatives in arriving at a fair and equitable solution. It is recommended that outside legal counsel be precluded from direct negotiations until it is agreed that a solution cannot be reached.

4. The first task of the merger representatives shall be to resolve any and all disputes and inconsistencies with regard to the employment data exchanged. The representatives shall be empowered to compromise their differences to the extent necessary to reach agreement except that the relative position of the flight deck crew members on their respective seniority lists shall be maintained. Areas remaining in disagreement shall be reduced to writing, stating the contentions of the parties, and shall be resolved, if necessary, by utilizing the arbitration procedures set forth in Section H. (AMENDED - Executive Board October 1991; Executive Board May 1998)

5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

6. The merger representatives shall report to the President, upon request, on their progress once negotiations begin. If, at any time after receiving the first report, in the opinion of the President, satisfactory progress is not being made, he may unilaterally intervene and invoke arbitration. (AMENDED - Executive Board October 1991)

PART 3 - GENERAL
A. ORDER OF MERGED LIST
No integrated list shall be constructed which would change the order of the flight deck crew members on their own respective seniority lists. (AMENDED - Executive Board May 1998)

 

[ALGFLYR]

Atlantic Coast has few takeover defenses to block Mesa Dateline: Wednesday October 08, 2003
Atlantic Coast Airlines Holdings, subject of an unsolicited takeover offer by Mesa Air Group Monday (ATWOnline, Oct. 7), has "extremely weak anti-takeover defenses," according to Credit Suisse First Boston analyst James Higgins.

In a report released yesterday, Higgins noted that ACAH's board of directors stands for election each year and there is no staggered board. Additionally, shareholders "can act by written consent, meaning that a proposal to hold a board election can be taken up at any time." The weak defenses, coupled with a "disgruntled shareholder base that is very skeptical about management's plan" to turn the Regional into a low-cost airline, "make the odds of Mesa's success in an offer quite high," according to Higgins. He also noted that nearly 45% of ACAH shares changed hands shortly after it announced its plan to become a low-fare airline and that another 20% changed hands yesterday. The implication is that a substantial portion of the stock rests with short-term investors interested in an arbitrage play.

Mesa Chairman and CEO Jonathan Ornstein is offering to exchange 0.9 share of newly issued Mesa stock for each share of ACAH common stock. In a briefing to analysts and media yesterday, he said he is prepared to take his offer "directly to Atlantic Coast shareholders." He said he disagrees with ACA's plan to become a standalone low-cost airline and its move in that direction propelled him to make his unsolicited bid. "That model is wrong for this company," he stated. However, he also would prefer to keep the two companies' operations separate.--Perry Flint & Sandra Arnoult

 

[hire_me]

JO is a genious. Mesa has the work. ACA has the airplanes. Mesa wants the airplanes. ACA has no work.

The ACA BOD/shareholders would be foolish to reject this proposal - the likelihood of starting up a successful low-cost carrier is poor to nil.

What's in it for the pilots? Initially a crappy contract. However, this merger will create the largest regional airline in the US. That means negotiating power. Imagine what a strike could do to Mesa down the road - seriously disabling operations at US Airways, United, Frontier and America West.

Genious I say!

 

[NoName]

They have power now, and didnt do anything with it. This is not good for pilots, i dont see how anyone can dispute that.

 

[46Driver]

JO is a genious. Mesa has the work. ACA has the airplanes. Mesa wants the airplanes. ACA has no work.

The ACA BOD/shareholders would be foolish to reject this proposal - the likelihood of starting up a successful low-cost carrier is poor to nil.

What's in it for the pilots? Initially a crappy contract. However, this merger will create the largest regional airline in the US. That means negotiating power. Imagine what a strike could do to Mesa down the road - seriously disabling operations at US Airways, United, Frontier and America West.

Genious I say!

First of all, its "Genius", not "Genious".........

MESA has part of the UAL contract because they bid on lower margins than are sustainable and are tying themselves to the 2 shakiest majors (UAL and USAir). ACA has the airplanes which MESA and UAL need but can not finance. ACA also has the gates at Dulles which MESA and UAL need but don't own. In other words, UAL and MESA are desperate.

The likelihood of starting a LCC is poor to nil? Yeah, just like AirTran and JetBlue. And ACA has more money in the bank than JetBlue when they started plus already having a structure in place.

What's in it for the pilots? To be whipsawed back and forth and forever be stuck with a MESA contract. Great. Pay rates at 20% less than the industry, no commuter clause, per diem at 33% less than the industry, only half pay for being deadheaded, no pay for weather or maintenance cancellations, nice.

 

[stillaboo]

What's in it for the pilots? . . . no commuter clause

They have a commuter clause. It's based on ACA's in fact.

Thes rest of your post, unfortunately, is sortta' true.

 

[46Driver]

ACA's commuter clause can be used at any time. From what I have heard, you can only use the MESA commuter clause once a year.....

 

[Anti-Matter]

ACA's commuter clause can be used at any time. From what I have heard, you can only use the MESA commuter clause once a year.....

And I hear their commute has to arrive 3 hours before their report time.

Way to go Mesa pilots!

 

[Cappy]

Are you serious???

JO is a genious. Mesa has the work. ACA has the airplanes. Mesa wants the airplanes. ACA has no work.

The ACA BOD/shareholders would be foolish to reject this proposal - the likelihood of starting up a successful low-cost carrier is poor to nil.

What's in it for the pilots? Initially a crappy contract. However, this merger will create the largest regional airline in the US. That means negotiating power. Imagine what a strike could do to Mesa down the road - seriously disabling operations at US Airways, United, Frontier and America West.

Genious I say!

You certainly must be joking as your comments lean towards this whole Mesa sideshow as something to be admired!?

Haven't you Mesa guys learned anything about who JO really is? He is Francisco Anthony Lorenzo reborn!!!

Don't know who he is? He whipsawed the Texas Air, Continental, New york Air and Eastern pilots for years until they had enough. The '89 Eastern strike has been misspoken as a pilot strike for years. It was actually a mechanic (IAM) strike...the pilots walked for over NINE MONTHS in sympathy.

Let's be clear, the pilot's were not really sympathetic to the mechanics (which is a long story) but knew that if they did not force Lorenzo out then their careers were over due to the his whipsawing the airlines employee groups.

Do you really beleive that your career is going to be something to be proud of as long as you work for JO?

PLease understand me, I am not blaming the Mesa pilots for anything, yet when I read your posts and your mesa-lounge webboard I am floored by the utter vacuum of information that you guys have. Or maybe it's something much worse, like a group that refuses to hear.

I do wish all Mesa pilots luck with JO and UAL. But ACA management chooses, and the pilots wholeheartedly agree, that staying with UAL has more long-term risks than reward. It's really that simple.

Stay Unified!

 

[j41driver]

Re: ???????????

Cappy? Who do you think you are....... something special? You bore me. If you fly for ACA then why are you worried about mesa? Go whine somewhere else!!!!!!!!

Uhhh, maybe he's worried about Mesa because JO wants to buy ACA....

Pay attention jacka$$.

 

[Anti-Matter]

It's obvious "Flying the Line II" was never mailed to the Mesa pilot group.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

For all you Mesa pilots out there with a hardup to merge with ACA I can understand your reasoning:
1. Your contract sucks...no details required
2. You have no understanding as to how terrible your contract is.

Didnt your mother teach you how to act? If you have an opinion about this merger then state it and back it up with facts. These are clearly stabs at MESA pilots, many of whom did not vote for their contract and all who know it sucks and none of who have anything to do with the proposed merger. They've had enough from your likes.

You might start to consider your own future and less time tossing veiled aspersions at MESA pilots. Youre in a lose / lose situation. Get taken over by MESA and be at the mercy of Johnny O. or go it alone and fail like most all other start ups do.

"Please dont be offended at my comments" My A$$

10200 hours at a commuter (oh excuse me "regional") is quite enough. Move on to something else where you feel good enough about yourself that you dont have to berate others.

 

[acaTerry]

Hose A. Jiminez,

You sir, are an idiot. You're profile goes beyond an innocent joke or two that lots of people put to lighten up. It shows that you are either a) a non pilot who has no idea what is going on or
b) a pilot who is a total idiot and is far out of touch with industry issues. I stand with Cappy in this whole bucket of crabs.
The facts you insist on seeing are posted on about 23,245,098 other threads in this forum.

10200 hours at a commuter (oh excuse me "regional") is quite enough. Move on to something else where you feel good enough about yourself that you dont have to berate others.

10,200 hours in this industry shows he juuuuust might be a liiiitle more informed than you. AND, the regionals (your "excuse me" remark again shows your stupididty and lack of time in this industry) used to be good enough. That is, until pushovers like YOU came along and turned it into the mess it is today because you "want to fly a jet".
As for "move on to something else"....STFU. Your words are spoken like a true quitter. If it gets hard, don't fight....quit. What an ethic you have! You're my hero!

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

First off JackHole... Everything on my profile is from movies. (Right Stuff and Fandango)

Second...

I know there are substantiated facts for his reasons the merger willnot happen. I have read them. But the relentless stabs that are continuously taken on this part of the board at Mesa pilots are not constructive. They show what an unprofessional group a portion of you are.

My high time at a regional job / move on comment was just to throw an unwarranted rock at Cappy just like he did at the Mesa pilot group when he said "they dont even understand how crappy their contract is"

As far as me being a push over, not that it is at all relevant, my first jet job was in a Boeing at about 80K. I have plenty of time in the industry. Enough time to know how to talk to my peers in a professional manner. This is something that should be learned long before 10200 hours. A little unification across company lines would go along way. All mgmt has to do is read this board to see that there is none.

Have a day

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

First off JackHole... Everything on my profile is from movies. (Right Stuff and Fandango)

Second...

I know there are substantiated facts for his reasons the merger willnot happen. I have read them. But the relentless stabs that are continuously taken on this part of the board at Mesa pilots are not constructive. They show what an unprofessional group a portion of you are.

My high time at a regional job / move on comment was just to throw an unwarranted rock at Cappy just like he did at the Mesa pilot group when he said "they dont even understand how crappy their contract is"

As far as me being a push over, not that it is at all relevant, my first jet job was in a Boeing at about 80K. I have plenty of time in the industry. Enough time to know how to talk to my peers in a professional manner. This is something that should be learned long before 10200 hours. A little unification across company lines would go along way. All mgmt has to do is read this board to see that there is none.

Have a day

 

[g159av8tor]

Cappy and I ardently disagreed on the direction, reasoning and need for our past TA. Now that my transformation to the "Dark Side" is nearly complete and I've had a stripe or two ripped from my uniform, I'll probably fly with him someday (I hope we keep the FMS in Autotune or we're screwed). I agree with his stance here, unless I have to put on a pair of Mesa wings.

I've learned a couple things about guys on the first page and a half of the seniority list that "should've gone somewhere else". Here are some admirable qualities that we younger guys often gloss over about "lifers".

One thing, they're not all pricks. Second, some guys have "it" (read high QOL) and don't want to go to the bottom of another seniority list. They make as much as some major airline FOs, hand pick their vacation days (usually 3-4 weeks accrued) and get ALL holidays off, made a million or more during ACA's first stock split, have 21 days off or better per month and complain about every god**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing that doesn't go their way (worse than a quilting bee if those still exist). And, yes, some are two-time losers that are unemployable at other airlines.

This hostile take-over is a water-shed event in the history of airline aviation. It's also going to be a bloodshed event.

Tailwinds...

 

[hyperboy]

mesa

J41dvr...............posted........ Uhhh, maybe he's worried about Mesa because JO wants to buy ACA....

Pay attention jacka$$.




yea maybe CAPPY has as much say about the merger like the guys that voted "No" or weren't notified by mesa's management on their next move??!!!!!

..............But I am sure you already knew that, huh?, or was the agreement voted 100% "YES". Maybe ignorance on your part or can I happily be your patsy?

 

[Anti-Matter]

First off JackHole...
. I have plenty of time in the industry. Enough time to know how to talk to my peers in a professional manner


The irony is priceless.

 

[Pablo E.]

YO CAPPY

It's "buy" not by dumb*ss