MESA/ACA Ain't Gonna Happen!

[Cappy]

Re: Re: MESA/ACA Ain't Gonna Happen!

Didnt your mother teach you how to act? If you have an opinion about this merger then state it and back it up with facts. These are clearly stabs at MESA pilots, many of whom did not vote for their contract and all who know it sucks and none of who have anything to do with the proposed merger. They've had enough from your likes.

You might start to consider your own future and less time tossing veiled aspersions at MESA pilots. Youre in a lose / lose situation. Get taken over by MESA and be at the mercy of Johnny O. or go it alone and fail like most all other start ups do.

"Please dont be offended at my comments" My A$$

10200 hours at a commuter (oh excuse me "regional") is quite enough. Move on to something else where you feel good enough about yourself that you dont have to berate others.

OK. I am going to take the high road here and start by appologizing to Hose A. Jiminez. Although not my intention to slander the Mesa pilots, as I stated in another posting, I do believe that many Mesa pilots are unaware of the position they are in respective to economic and quality of life issues.

I know why Mesa inked the current deal with JO, to purchase the scope language that you didn't possess before. Am I wrong? You state that many Mesa pilots have nothing to do with the proposed merger. Did I say that? I do not think I did. I mean to say that IF we are merged then it's going to be a long road until we get some stability in the new Mesa Air Group...if it happens.

The concensus among the ACA pilots is this; we are willing to stake our future to the LCC first, work as UEX second, work for Mesa...NEVER!

And please don't take it personally! If I were a Delta pilot I would not want to work at ACA! I understand.

As to your comment about the failure of the LCC. Again the feeling among the pilots at ACA is that we would rather go down on our own and say that we tried something that was OURS than to be a whor% for UAL.

I do wish all the best for not just the Mesa pilots but ALL of us. These are truly trying times.

Best of luck.

 

[mesajock]

cappy

The problem cappy is more about the attitude that ACA is so much better. The comparison Delta (ACA) Mesa (in place of ACA) is ludicrus. ACA is not a major airline and the pilot group has no business being so arragont. Mesa may not be the best place to work or have the best conditions contract etc., however were the best thing going.
PS
Your right these are trying times but it is more tiresome for all of this speculation especially by the uniformed and ignorant.
I also hope for the best especially since I have no control over what happens I hope those of you on the board realize that....blah, blah, blah

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: cappy

The problem cappy is more about the attitude that ACA is so much better.

When hiring times were good, MESA was a stepping stone for Majors AND other regionals like ACA. Did anyone ever leave ACA voluntarily to go to MESA? It's not about "attitude"...it's about reality.

 

[belchfire]

It is my hope that JO ends up in a room
in He!! right next to Don Carty...in the mean
time everyone needs to watch out, because
when free**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** air got shut down
Lowenstine got a bunch of free time on his
hands to figure out how to get bigger.

Someone needs to show some of the stats
of ontime performance, NTSB reports and etc.
to the ACA BOD and shareholders, and maybe
some of these posts!

JO would have every airline employee working
at burgerflipper wages if he could, so he could
put more in his pocket... "welcome to mesa air,
can I take your order please?"

Many people misquote the Good Book and say
money is the root of all evil...it is "the love of
money is the root of all kinds of evil"...

JO is pretty frigging evil, and he must be
stopped!

There are enough numbers out there besides
payscales to show that Mesa is a leaky
operation. The kind of numbers that would show
that this is a bad move to share holders, and
that is what needs to be exposed.

This is not a slam of the crews/employees of
mesa...like me, they are stuck in a far from ideal
situation, and in this industry and at this time,
like me they are lucky to have a job.

One thing that might slow/stop this spread of
jo's cancer is if all ACA unions ( I assume that not
just the pilots are union) took a vote to strike if
ACA is sold to JO. Not being well versed in
law or union protocall, I don't know if that
would be legal or advisable. I do know that the
Mesa BOD/shareholders might balk at buying
something that became useless as soon as they
took possesion.

 

[mesajock]

Cloud, You have got to be kidding me!!! 1st I have no beef with the ACA guys but WHAT IS YOUR REALITY!!! This comparison with the majors is ridiculis. Lets think about this for a second...maybe two...There is no way someone would go to ACA from Mesa barring family etc.(seniority) The contract is only marginally better and ours sucks. Explain to me what aca offers that would make it rival a major or even skywest! Reality is mesa has a sh@t contract and a majority of the industry wants to play the blame game instead of taking care of business. There is a reason Mesa is in a position to take over ACA good, bad or indifferent that is REALITY!!!

 

[Heavy Set]

I personally want to see ACA become a LCC. Why do we want to increase JO's influence in the industry? Nobody WANTS to work for JO. Most pilots WANT to fly bigger equipment. I think ACA has a real opportunity to create something great - especially if it teams up with Branson/Virgin. But JO wants to protect ailing/sickly UAL and his HUGE UAL contract and be the party spoiler...

C'mon ACA management, show us you have some BALL$!!!!!!!

 

[WhiteCloud]

Cloud, You have got to be kidding me!!! 1st I have no beef with the ACA guys but WHAT IS YOUR REALITY!!! This comparison with the majors is ridiculis. Lets think about this for a second...maybe two...There is no way someone would go to ACA from Mesa barring family etc.(seniority) The contract is only marginally better and ours sucks. Explain to me what aca offers that would make it rival a major or even skywest! Reality is mesa has a sh@t contract and a majority of the industry wants to play the blame game instead of taking care of business. There is a reason Mesa is in a position to take over ACA good, bad or indifferent that is REALITY!!!

The ACA list is full of former MESA pilots as well as from other places like Trans States (me) and Colgan. Most moved to ACA after gaining some experience at these other places. I doubt a MESA Captain or FO that's near upgrade would jump to ACA and start over unless there were personal preferences (base near hometown etc. )driving the decision. ACA is not close to a major in terms of pay and benefits. There are many reasons why MESA is in some position to take over other regionals. The second rate pilot contract is one of those reasons. Which contract would you prefer? ACA's? or MESA's

 

[mesajock]

Thats easy I would take the better contract everytime. But the ACA contract is not that much better albeit a little. Please enlighten me as to the other reasons they are so much better...I am trying to understand the attitude I see on these boards etc. Not looking to get flamed just looking for answers.

 

[mesajock]

Another question, Ive read so many posts about ACA guys quitting before they would work for mesa. Do you actually believe that would happen...I ask because you are there and I am in the desert. I guess talk is cheap

 

[WhiteCloud]

I am trying to understand the attitude I see on these boards

I don't think ACA pilots, as a group, think they are any better than anyone else. It the Lorenzonian approach of your management leadership to airline acquision and employee relations that has every one pissed at MESA. Don't take it personally as a pilot working there.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Another question, Ive read so many posts about ACA guys quitting before they would work for mesa. Do you actually believe that would happen...I ask because you are there and I am in the desert. I guess talk is cheap

That would be an interesting tactic to help prevent a hostile takeover. It would have to be done as a unified group to be effective.

 

[70Cuda]

This thread is rediculous!!

All you ACA and Mesa knuckleheads who keep throwing insults back and forth need to grow up!!!

Also, to you Mesa pilots: please don't think that the few arrogant ACA pilots on this board is in any way representitive of the ACA pilot group as a whole. Every pilot group has its idiots, and we at ACA aren't the exception. Times are frustrating at ACA and the weak-minded pilots take out their frustration on boards like these by bashing others.

I can tell you one thing. ACA pilots, overall, are a great bunch of people and don't slander other pilot groups, including Mesa.

 

[Heavy Set]

70Cuda,

I think it is fair to say that most ACA pilots DON'T want to work for JO. Do you think that is reasonable given his pi$$-poor relationship with pilots? Why don't you loosen up a bit...

 

[WhiteCloud]

I can tell you one thing. ACA pilots, overall, are a great bunch of people and don't slander other pilot groups, including Mesa.

Thanks for the comment. Any ACA pilot that slanders other pilots is not speaking for the group as a whole. We only slander management.

 

[Patriot328]

Thats easy I would take the better contract everytime. But the ACA contract is not that much better albeit a little. Please enlighten me as to the other reasons they are so much better...I am trying to understand the attitude I see on these boards etc. Not looking to get flamed just looking for answers.

Because my contract allows me to make $65,000-70,000/yr flying a 32 seat plane around as a 5th yr captain. Your's doesn't. In fact, I make more flying the dojet around than a contemporary captain does at MAG flying the 50 seat birds around. I haven't had less than 15 days off since I don't know when and no less than 17-18 since June. When I commuted, I had a commuter policy that I could use 5 times a week if I needed to, not once every 12 months. I've never been extended at the end of the trip, and if I were to be, it's only for one more round. I don't have to hide from the company on my days off. If they call me, they can ASK me to come in and fly... I don't have to do it and there's no recourse for my decision. If the weather turns to shyt and the flight cancels, I'll still get paid. If it's winter and I spend all day getting de-iced and I block 8 hrs instead of the scheduled 6, I'll get 8 hrs of pay. I've never had the Chief pilot call up and yell at me about canceling a flight and him saying, "now you just cost some of your fellow crew members some money because the next flight is canceled." We get paid full pay for deadheads.

Some of the ones off the top of my head...

 

[Anti-Matter]

I'll take it from here Patriot 328:

Not only are our pay rates better, but our lineholders (and reservists) can regularly make over 100 hours of pay. (I knew a reserve CRJ CA who made 135 hours of pay in July.) How, do you ask? When pilots are only limited to 100 hours a month? Because of something called SOFT PAY. And the fact that everything over 98 hours (CREDIT) is 200%. Every extension at the end of a trip is 150% (200% if its more than the second time in a month.) We get scheduled or actual block, whichever is higher. So when our planes sit next to each other in the penalty box at ORD take comfort in the fact that the pilots in the RJ with the "Operated by Atlantic Coast Airlines" paint job are racking up the hours while they read the McPaper while the pilots in the "Operated by MESA" have finished getting paid for the day. If trips are dropped due to conflict/training/30 in 7/7 in a row we get paid for them.

Closer to DAL than MESA? No. But way better than MESA nonetheless.

It doesn't really matter though. As soon as you MESA guys get your 1,000 hours PIC you'll be leaving for UAL, AA, and DAL, right?

 

[g159av8tor]

and to continue...

As a pilot formally known as a reserve J-41 CA, I consistently blocked 25-30 hours, finagled my schedule and days off to achieve 15-20 hours above the 75 hour gurantee (90-95 credit hours) and weekends off. Ninety-five credit hours is d@mn good for the turbo-prop lines at ACA which were about 83-87 hours. Also, even though I'm only guaranteed 11 days off per month, because of the reserve system and our commuter policy (and having an extremely stressless commute) I'd have another 2-3 days at home on the couch or in the yard paid. We DO have it pretty good at the airline soon to be formally known as ACA.

Now that I'm going to be a super-slick CRJ F/O with a paycut, I've got to master bidding conflicts and go for the big bucks!!!

Tailwinds...

 

[exphojump]

ACAI pilots aren't better than Mesa pilots anymore than UAL pilots are better than ACAI pilots.

To compare contracts and say that Mesa is in the "ballpark" is laughable.

When I finally put my hat into the airline ring in 1999 only applied to a few airlines. Eagle and Mesa had horrible reputations so I didn't even apply. I had a choice between Trans States and Comair. At the time Comair was still PFT and Trans States was experiencing 6 month upgrades. I chose Trans States.

While at TSA I learned how bad management can make an airline pilot's life hell. I learned how bad work rules make or break you on pay and QOL. After less than a year I chose to go to ACAI and work for a company that treated the pilots well and had a good contract. Over 100 TSA pilots jumped ship in the first half of 2000 to go to ACAI. At the time an ACA J41 FO being payed 10/hr less could make more than TSA J41 CA due to work rules.

The pilots I flew with at TSA were a great bunch of pilots but their contract sucked. As a group they stood a voted in a strike to get a better contract. Even though their present contract isn't industry leading it is a vast improvement.

Mesa has had a bad rap at least since 1990(the first year I had heard of it), I remember my first flight instructing job the assistant chief pilot left Mesa after two years siting safety concerns and general abuse. Anyone who chose to go to Mesa, did it for a stepping stone or for location, knowing full well they would be treated badly.

So, having experienced a company with bad work rules and QOL and ACAI I would rather be an FO here than a CA at Mesa.

Hopefully this merger never happens. If it does and Mesa pilots enforce their scope, they stand to experience a vast improvement in their contract while ours is diluted.