Mesa #1 - Official evidence

[CaribPilot]

We care. You talk your BS...you get shown that you are wrong then say....who cares?

Please use the search function, find where i "talked my BS", post the link to this BS, and show me how I am wrong. If you cant do this and you fail to find anything.....go take a long walk off a short bridge.

"Mesa Sucks" does not even begin to scratch the surface of the epic failure that Mesa is. They are undoubtedly the worst regional carrier flying, everything from work rules, to management practices, pay scales, maintenance quality, to the worst CEO in these here United States.

You know Mesa really does suck when older working pilots who don't even browse the internet much frequently say, "Mesa needs to go away". Lolllll

 

[CX880]

Here are the UAL/UAX stats for july 09 (the most recent I was able to find)

Avg Daily flights
1. OO 1,077
2. YV 348
3. S5 196
4. AX 182
5. G7 128
6. 9L 73
7. RP 51
UAX 2,041
UA 1,023

Adj. Completion
1. OO 99.6
2. RP 99.6
3. S5 99.5
4. AX 99.4
5. 9L 99.3
6. G7 99.3
7. YV 98.6
UAX 99.6
UA 99.2

D:O
1. RP 89.3
2. 9L 88.4
3. S5 87.6
4. G7 81.7
5. AX 78.9
6. OO 75.4
7. YV 74.3
UAX 78.0
UA 75.4

STAR Flights
1. RP 92.2
2. S5 91.0
3. 9L 88.4
4. G7 87.6
5. YV 85.1
6. AX 84.2
7. OO 84.2
UAX 85.7
UA 85.9

A:14
1. RP 94.3
2. S5 91.7
3. 9L 91.0
4. G7 89.5
5. AX 87.0
6. OO 86.9
7. YV 84.9
UAX 87.7
UA 88.0

Bags
1. OO 8.29
2. 9L 8.53
3. G7 11.6
4. S5 12.34
5. YV 13.11
6. AX 13.15
7. RP 19.11
UAX 13.15
UA 6.24

Yea and those numbers are with ACARS so no false numbers like with Airways!!

 

[Mike man]

Please explain to me how Acars impacts A-14 when the times are reported by Delta people?

Delta people don't call the times in to operations, the crews do...so a one or two minute delay or even 10, 20, 30 minutes can all be on time with a pen in the logbook, but with ACARS a one second delay is a delay.

Please explain to me how Acars impacts completion factor?

You can change the date in ACARS to show they flight completed on what ever day you want. Which you think would snowball and be a big deal eventually, but a repo flight here or there can keep the numbers down (for CX's) or up (for hight %'s)

Please explain to me how Acars impacts in flight service of frequest flyer perception of value?

Flight attendants filling them out using tickets left in seat back pockets...real names, real seats, real record locator...I have never, ever seen a passenger fill one of those stupid things out when they are happy and on time, only when they are upset and late.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Yea and those numbers are with ACARS so no false numbers like with Airways!!

What we here at AWAC have heard since starting USAirways flying back in 2006 is that Tempe is extremely pleased with our performance, especially in PHL, compared to the last operator (MESA). And that is with ACARS on our a/c. The only thing Parker has said he's not happy with is our cost.

Oh well, you get what you pay for, I guess.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[OPECJet]

What we here at AWAC have heard since starting USAirways flying back in 2006 is that Tempe is extremely pleased with our performance, especially in PHL, compared to the last operator (MESA). And that is with ACARS on our a/c. The only thing Parker has said he's not happy with is our cost.

Oh well, you get what you pay for, I guess.

Peace.

Rekks

Parker still wouldn't be happy if you guys were flying for free.

I can't tell you how many times I heard Mesa -900s calling off times other than actual when pushing back at CLT. That was when they first brought the 900s in there and parking them at C concourse. Couldn't complain too much, I only left late when I was pissed.

 

[79%N1]

There is no doubt Freedumb lies on times. I was sitting next to them in GSP, watched them close the door at :14 past, and call out "on time, on the hour"! We laughed our arses off on that one.

 

[rene]

I'll tell you this rene from a pax standpoint who knows what's up....

Last year I airlined home on UA flights ASE-DEN-BHM. ASE-DEN Skywest, DEN-BHM on you guys. The SkyWest crews, very professional, friendly, clean, well spoken, well groomed (I'm talking cabin crews here, flight crews are flight crews in my book). Cabin appearance? Clean, well lit, well maintained, very few wear scratches in the paint, appeared to be well maintained from a pax standpoint. In flight service? What you would expect on a short leg.

Mesa flight? Inbound aircraft late, went to Starbucks with the flight crew. Good guys, professional, not the spiky hair type. Cabin crew? One looked like she came out of the hood, the other had some definite porn star qualities. With a slight beer buzz, possibly doable. Neither were intelligable on the PA. Cabin appearance? Grimy. Hadn't been cleaned in God knows how long, I felt like I needed a shower halfway through that 2 hour hell. Loose fittings rattled like a baby toy during the taxi, brakes sounded like an overloaded 18 wheeler trying to stop in a gigantic litter box full of angry cats. In flight service? What I would have expected on the ASE-DEN leg. Very little, even fewer smiles. I might add the galley hag in the back kept the lav locked until a parent threatened to let his little boy piss in the galley. I thought that was pretty funny..... It wasn't MEL'ed either, just an FA who felt like it had to be locked if the seatbelt sign was on. Seems to be the norm on Mesa..

I'm no fan of SkyWest, but you guys have a long way to go before much in that "memo" is true. Nothing against Mesa crews. For many years they busted hump to get me to work and home. I've also run across more than one professional and well demeanored Mesa FA. Just seems like my last experience as a "paying" passenger is more the norm than not.

I'd also love to see one of those Delta comment card things you speak of. I've been medallion level of some sort for the last 2 years and have yet to see one.

Maybe you need a more recent observation? My point is that Mesa has changed for the better and changed dramatically fro the better within the last year.

 

[rene]

Delta people don't call the times in to operations, the crews do...so a one or two minute delay or even 10, 20, 30 minutes can all be on time with a pen in the logbook, but with ACARS a one second delay is a delay.



You can change the date in ACARS to show they flight completed on what ever day you want. Which you think would snowball and be a big deal eventually, but a repo flight here or there can keep the numbers down (for CX's) or up (for hight %'s)



Flight attendants filling them out using tickets left in seat back pockets...real names, real seats, real record locator...I have never, ever seen a passenger fill one of those stupid things out when they are happy and on time, only when they are upset and late.

Please trust me on this, NONE of these things are happening. Do you think for one second that if Delta thought we were cheating on any metric, particularly on metrics for which they pay incentives, that they wouldn't send an army of auditors to prove it and then run to court to get their money back?

Your accusations are off the mark and fall into the catageory of pure fantasy. The frequent flyer surveys are filled out on line after the frequent flyer signs into their account with a secure password.

Delta would just never accept an on time arrival if we were late.

 

[rene]

What we here at AWAC have heard since starting USAirways flying back in 2006 is that Tempe is extremely pleased with our performance, especially in PHL, compared to the last operator (MESA). And that is with ACARS on our a/c. The only thing Parker has said he's not happy with is our cost.

Oh well, you get what you pay for, I guess.

Peace.

Rekks

Here is a little problem with your post. Mesa was NOT the last operator in PHL for Airways.

Why don't we all just forget about the facts and just makeup whatever fantasy we want to create about Mesa. I am just one pilot and I am not very senior, and i see a very well run company at least on the operations side.

Please give us a break and quit the bashing.

 

[CX880]

i see a very well run company at least on the operations side.

Please give us a break and quit the bashing.

That's why you have Delta trying to get rid of you and UA already did with the 200s. Airways is next. You are the only mesa pilot that defends the place at least on the internet.

 

[buscap]

Here is a little problem with your post. Mesa was NOT the last operator in PHL for Airways.

Why don't we all just forget about the facts and just makeup whatever fantasy we want to create about Mesa. I am just one pilot and I am not very senior, and i see a very well run company at least on the operations side.

Please give us a break and quit the bashing.

Dude!!

You live in a toilet and are mad that everyone thinks you smell like poop??

What gives?

Ok!!

Maybe the poop doesn't have as much corn in it as it once did and maybe the janitor invested in one of those blue hockey pucks that go in the tank...

But it is still a toilet and you still smell like poop, blue poop maybe...but poop is still poop.

So get over it and just revel in your poopness.

Just go out there and be the best little turd you can be!!!

 

[SoberIrishman]

Originally Posted by rene
i see a very well run company at least on the operations side.

Please give us a break and quit the bashing.

On behalf of all non-Mesa pilots, we are extremely sorry. We will not do it again.

We fully understand that you are so concerned that your company will cease operations fairly soon, and as a result are willing to fly for next-to-nothing, sugar coat the metrics, support your brand image, (even though you have been treated so badly), and make it appear that you are the top regional airline. This is a quite natural survival strategy. It really can be compared to Darwinian theory, as exhibited in the Pigeon population at Atlanta airport. The males are in fact starting to do their little dances, even in these frigid conditions, trying to show that they are the best, but remember, only the fittest will survive! We only let them stay in ATL because they do a great job cleaning the cabin, otherwise we would poison them. Like Mesa they just keep flying around no matter what.

Your mainline partners are however wise to your tricks. It is likely that your company will survive, but will be an industry outcast, and be operating in a much smaller way. Unfortunately you pooped in your nest, and now you have to sleep in it!

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Here is a little problem with your post. Mesa was NOT the last operator in PHL for Airways.

Why don't we all just forget about the facts and just makeup whatever fantasy we want to create about Mesa. I am just one pilot and I am not very senior, and i see a very well run company at least on the operations side.

Please give us a break and quit the bashing.

Well, seeing as PDT and PSA are still there, as well as the occasional Chautquapublic flight, yet MESA left such a nice, lasting impression.

Could you please tell me what you are on so I can order some for when I retire, that is some really GOOD stuff!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[79%N1]

Rene IS Ornstein!!

Hey Johnny Boy!!!

 

[Broke in CVG]

Please trust me on this, NONE of these things are happening. Do you think for one second that if Delta thought we were cheating on any metric, particularly on metrics for which they pay incentives, that they wouldn't send an army of auditors to prove it and then run to court to get their money back?

Want to make a bet? Seen it FIRST hand on a REGULAR basis!!!

You are soooooo naive. Delta isn't going to send auditors out as the cost, plus legal fees would be more than what they could recover.

And for the record, the pilots are calling out on-time and in late not for the company's benefit but to squeeze every last nickel out of their trips. Lots of downgraded Captains that need the money and I don't blame them one bit. Shame they choose to go to a scumbag operation like Mesa.

 

[OPECJet]

Maybe you need a more recent observation? My point is that Mesa has changed for the better and changed dramatically fro the better within the last year.

You understand that "last year" includes flights two months ago, right?

Johnny, don't you have an airline to continue running aground?

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Pretty easy to do when you're the lowest-bidder by undercutting the competition.

Wrongo Bongo. Expressjet is the new undercutter.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Wrongo Bongo. Expressjet is the new undercutter.

True. You can do that when CO is helping with the bills, though.

 

[Mike man]

Please trust me on this, NONE of these things are happening. Do you think for one second that if Delta thought we were cheating on any metric, particularly on metrics for which they pay incentives, that they wouldn't send an army of auditors to prove it and then run to court to get their money back?

Your accusations are off the mark and fall into the catageory of pure fantasy. The frequent flyer surveys are filled out on line after the frequent flyer signs into their account with a secure password.

I don't recall seeing incentives as part of the terms of the agreement, only penalties if certain metrics are not being met.

Delta would just never accept an on time arrival if we were late.

I literally just fell out of my chair laughing...with no ACARS to send an out time how exactly is mother Delta going to prove anything other than what is in the logbook? Plus having flown for a DAL regional a while back I watched and listened to it happening on a daily basis. So yes these things are happening.

I am a frequent DAL flier and I am SkyMile member and I don't recall seeing anything about a survey for a recent flight...I do remember seeing those dumb freaking forms to fill out.

 

[Taco Rocket]

I think you guys are looking at the Freedom/Delta relationship all wrong.

Don't argue about on-time metrics or customer satisfaction statistics: it never mattered. Freedom was there to diversify away from Comair and the "old" ASA -- to drive a wedge in negotiations and scatter their ops so that another 2000-style strike could never happen again.

After all, who was in MCO before Freedom took over?
And now in CVG?

So why argue about who was/is/could be/should have been #1 on time in the Delta system. Management has waved the "mission accomplished" banner and is moving on.

 

[WayBack]

I think you guys are looking at the Freedom/Delta relationship all wrong.

Don't argue about on-time metrics or customer satisfaction statistics: it never mattered. Freedom was there to diversify away from Comair and the "old" ASA -- to drive a wedge in negotiations and scatter their ops so that another 2000-style strike could never happen again.

After all, who was in MCO before Freedom took over?
And now in CVG?

So why argue about who was/is/could be/should have been #1 on time in the Delta system. Management has waved the "mission accomplished" banner and is moving on.

Take a picture people, this is what "sense" looks like. It only comes once every 63yrs on FI.com

 

[nerjdriver]

True. You can do that when CO is helping with the bills, though.

CO is helping with the bills huh. Think you need to do some research on that Walter.

You are WAY OUT of your element.

 

[Mike man]

...who was in MCO before Freedom took over?

Comair, ASA and Chautauqua...why?

 

[B.T.Justice]

Please trust me on this, NONE of these things are happening. Do you think for one second that if Delta thought we were cheating on any metric, particularly on metrics for which they pay incentives, that they wouldn't send an army of auditors to prove it and then run to court to get their money back?

Yep, I think they would...and in fact, they are. Delta filed their brief with the bankruptcy court on 2/4. Lets have a look:


5. The Delta Connection Agreement obligated Freedom and Mesa to invoice Delta on a monthly basis for amounts they were entitled to receive under the terms of the Delta Connection Agreement, but no more. Freedom and/or Mesa had an express contractual obligation to ensure that their invoices were accurate and in compliance with the Delta Connection Agreement. Freedom and Mesa also had an express contractual duty to accurately report operational data, including Freedom’s completion rate, to Delta on a daily basis.

6. One type of compensation potentially available to Freedom and
Mesa under the Delta Connection Agreement was the “Base Mark-Up.”
Freedom and/or Mesa were eligible to receive the Base Mark-Up for a
particular month only if Freedom completed at least 95% of the flights
scheduled pursuant to the Delta Connection Agreement for that particular
month. Freedom and/or Mesa were also potentially entitled to additional
incentive compensation on a monthly basis if Freedom met additional
performance criteria.

7. The Delta Connection Agreement expressly provides that, for
purposes of calculating Freedom’s completion rate, flights completed four or more hours late and flights flown with no revenue passengers are not to be counted as completed flights. Thus, in preparing invoices pursuant to the Delta Connection Agreement, Freedom and Mesa were not permitted to count such flights as having been completed for purposes of determining whether Freedom and/or Mesa were eligible to receive the Base Mark-Up or any other incentive compensation.

8. Prior to the termination of the Delta Connection Agreement, Freedom and/or Mesa regularly reported to Delta that Freedom’s completion rate met or exceeded 95%. Thus, Freedom and/or Mesa regularly billed Delta for the Base Mark-Up and, on occasion, additional incentive compensation. The Base Mark-Up for which Freedom and/or Mesa billed Delta regularly amounted to several hundred thousand dollars per month. Prior to January 2008, Delta regularly paid Freedom’s and/or Mesa’s invoices, including the Base Mark-Up and, at time, other incentive compensations, in good-faith reliance upon the accuracy and completeness of the operational data and invoices supplied by Freedom and/or Mesa.

9. The Delta Connection Agreement permits Delta to “audit and inspect Operator’s books and records with respect to services provided hereunder, the service levels achieved, and the determination of charges due pursuant to this Agreement” for the purposes of auditing compensation paid to Freedom and/or Mesa, including “any Mark-up or incentive compensation due or paid hereunder.”

10. In March 2008, Delta conducted a review of Freedom’s and Mesa’s invoices. Delta discovered that Freedom and/or Mesa’s reporting of Freedom’s completion rate was not in compliance with the Delta Connection Agreement. In particular, Freedom and/or Mesa were counting flightscompleted four or more hours late, and flights flown with no revenue passengers, as completed flights when calculating Freedom’s completion rate. The express terms of the Delta Connection Agreement, however, provide that such flights are not to be counted as completed flights.

11. Freedom’s and/or Mesa’s improper classification of such flights as completed flights was improper and rendered their reporting of completion rate materially inaccurate. When Delta corrected Freedom’s and/or Mesa’s calculations, it found that Freedom’s monthly completion rate was often below the contractual minimum required to be eligible for the Base Mark-Up and/or additional incentive compensation. Thus, for those months, Freedom and Mesa were not entitled to request or receive the Base Mark-Up or any other incentive compensation.

12. Freedom and Mesa have billed Delta for the Base Mark-Up and additional incentive compensation in violation of the Delta Connection
Agreement and systematically overbilled Delta. Until March 2008, Delta
paid those inflated invoices without knowing of the Plaintiffs’ improper
billing practices.

Rene- the army of auditors is on the way - and they want their money back!

 

[Raoul Duke]

You understand they lost on each of the points above? The court found that Delta had modified the agreement and that Mesa had correctly billed. Delta was found to have acted in bad faith and the court also found that Delta's witnesses were not credible. Delta appealed the decision and lost. I am not sure how effective quoting a losing argument is.

 

[B.T.Justice]

I think you need to check your facts. This is from the brief Delta filed on 2/4/2010 with the bankruptcy court. Mesa was issued a stay in the Georgia court, not a victory.

 

[WalterSobchak]

CO is helping with the bills huh. Think you need to do some research on that Walter.

You are WAY OUT of your element.

Far fetched, maybe...but, dig a little deeper, homeskillet. These days, it's all about reduction of "tail-risk" when it comes to the 50-seat world...and CO holds the leases on a bunch of those Xjet airframes.

 

[Nevets]

Wrongo Bongo. Expressjet is the new undercutter.

Can you provide a source?

True. You can do that when CO is helping with the bills, though.

That was part of the crapy deal SKW made with CAL that XJT was forced to sign. Thanks for that.

Far fetched, maybe...but, dig a little deeper, homeskillet. These days, it's all about reduction of "tail-risk" when it comes to the 50-seat world...and CO holds the leases on a bunch of those Xjet airframes.

CAL's pilots have a scope that they will not relinquish. CAL knows this and therefore they don't have as much "tail-risk" you speak of when it comes to the 50-seat world. CAL holds the head lease on all those aircraft.

 

[WalterSobchak]

CAL holds the head lease on all those aircraft.

I wasn't sure if it was still the entire fleet.

 

[Nevets]

I wasn't sure if it was still the entire fleet.

Well, not the entire fleet. They own about four of them.