Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Merill Lynch

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
pilotmiketx said:
"Hiding" airplanes as you put it is actually quite common for many people/entities. You'll find everything from 172s to 757s on the registry with obscure registered owners with addresses at some Delaware attorney's office.

The reasons are many, with liability being one of the biggies. If a judgement is made against the company, the airplane can't be used in the settlement and vice versa. I'm sure there are tax reasons as well.

Also, some public companies don't want shareholders knowing about their aircraft because they may be viewed as frivolous luxuries.

You are 100% correct. Those companies that choose to register their aircraft to LLC's or under bank names do that for the precise reason of keeping liability in case of a problem more than at arms length from the owning company. If you look at the FAA registry (link was indicated in an earlier message), and do a search on aircraft types, specifically G-4's or G-5's, I guarantee that most will come up with either banks (such as Wells Fargo) as the owner, or some obscure LLC made up by someone on the legal floor of the company actually owning the aircraft. There will be very few "true" company names listed which would be the name of the actual owner.

A terrific publication if anyone is interested that lists actual owners without the LLC's or bank fronts is JP Biz Jet 2005, put out by Brian Gates. Do a search on the web as to where to buy it.

If you were to look up N1LB and N250LB, Lehman's G-4's, they would actually be listed as Lehman Brothers/CES Aviation LLC, not just CES Aviation as indicated on the FAA site.

As far as explaining my name (PMVULB Avmgr), I'll leave figuring that out to those who are interested, I choose to remain behind that name. Let's call it my LLC!
 
mzaharis said:
I was aware that most companies put their aircraft under independent companies, but why is Wells Fargo so commonly a trustee? Is that a very sophisticated version of the bank holding onto my automobile title until I pay off the loan, does Wells Fargo do aircraft management, or do they provide some other service to aircraft owners?

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nameSQL.asp?nametxt=Wells+Fargo&sort_option=5

Most times the reason is very simple. When a bank's name comes up it is most often the airplane is being leased to the operator and owned by the bank. Wells Fargo & GE Capital are two commonly seen registered owners. Our aircraft is owned by a separately created LLC for liability and tax reasons.
 
Can anyone offer insight into the pros & cons of working for a Managed Jet place vs a traditional corporate flight department? -- If the other factors were the same (type of equipment, size of fleet).

Thanks
 
Assets, whether owned or leased (which would be the case with banks on the registration), are required to be listed, along with the etimated value of that asset, on the company's proxy statements by the Securities and Exchange Commision, or SEC. Failure to comply with that requirement by knowingly witholding that type of information would result in civil and criminal charges being brought forth by the SEC and shareholders. Rest assured that a busines tool such as an aircraft cannot be legally hidden from shareholders of a publically traded company. The shareholders know about the aircraft if they just read the report, which they are required to be provided a copy of.

Take Lehman Brothers as an example. If they were trying to hide from shareholders, then why would they allow the tail # to end in LB on both aircraft? I'm sure they are using their current arrangement with the bank for tax and liability purposes as you mentioned previously. The only problem with this type of arrangement (Company A leasing an airplane from Bank A for the sole purpose of transporting employees of Company B, a subsidiary of Company A) is the fine line between 91 nad 135 operations, depending on how the jurisdictional FSDO views these types of arrangements
pilotmiketx said:
Also, some public companies don't want shareholders knowing about their aircraft because they may be viewed as frivolous luxuries.
 
mzaharis said:
I was aware that most companies put their aircraft under independent companies, but why is Wells Fargo so commonly a trustee? Is that a very sophisticated version of the bank holding onto my automobile title until I pay off the loan, does Wells Fargo do aircraft management, or do they provide some other service to aircraft owners?
Like GE, another company that seems to own a lot of aircraft, Wells Fargo is the leasing company from whom the companies and airlines lease the aircraft from. Wells Fargo actually buys the aircraft new from the manufacture based on the requirements of the leasee. The company/airline then leases the aircraft from WF based upon pre-agreed terms. Unlike a car lease, the leasee is typically responsible for liquidating the aircraft once its use is no longer needed. Furthermore, the leasing company has a hold-harmless agreement with the leasee, thus removing the bank from any liability incurred by the aircraft's use should there ever be an issue brought forth by litigation.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top