Merill Lynch

saltyworks

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Any one know anything about them, where they are based what kind of equipment ect..
 

G4G5

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It's a Jet Aviation managed account out of Teb
 

saltyworks

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Thank you. Does that mean that although their pilots work for jet, they fly only Merill's planes?
 

G4G5

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Yes, they are Jet employees. All the big brokerage houses Lehman, Morgan, Merill, hide their flt ops at mgt companies like Jet.
 
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PMVULB AvMgr

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G4G5 said:
Yes, they are Jet employees. All the big brokerage houses Lehman, Morgan, Merill, hide their flt ops at mgt companies like Jet.

Which "Morgan" are you referring to - JPMorgan Chase or Morgan Stanley? Also, Lehman is not hiding their planes with a management company, they choose to have the aircraft managed for tax savings. Has nothing to do with "hiding" the birds.
 

rice

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PMVULB AvMgr said:
Which "Morgan" are you referring to - JPMorgan Chase or Morgan Stanley? Also, Lehman is not hiding their planes with a management company, they choose to have the aircraft managed for tax savings. Has nothing to do with "hiding" the birds.

I think G4G5 was just using an expression when he referred to it as hiding. Kinda touhcie on that one pal?
BTW I'm a mental midget, what the heck does PMVULB stand for?? Been wondering that for a while now.
 

G4G5

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By hiding what I was referring to was a registration search
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/NNum_inquiry.asp

If I do a search on N1LB, Lehman Brothers in not listed as the owner. The FAA also has a section "By Other owner names" again nothing is listed. If you do a search under the RVSM data the management companies name comes up, not the owner. Maybe I am wrong but it appears to me that they don't want the actual ownership listed. Merril and Morgan Stanley do the same things, that's what I was referring to as hiding. To my knowledge none of the above listed companies actually have pilots on the payroll. The flight crews all work for management companies. This is also what I was referring to when I used the term hiding

Morgan Stanley closed up their Chicago flt ops last month and moved it over to a Jet managed account out HPN, but my guess is you knew that already.

Have a nice day
 
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rice

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semperfido said:
uh..i am guessing phillip morris blah blah :)
Yeah that part my pickled brain could WAG at. It was the VULB I was missing.
 

pilotmiketx

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"Hiding" airplanes as you put it is actually quite common for many people/entities. You'll find everything from 172s to 757s on the registry with obscure registered owners with addresses at some Delaware attorney's office.

The reasons are many, with liability being one of the biggies. If a judgement is made against the company, the airplane can't be used in the settlement and vice versa. I'm sure there are tax reasons as well.

Also, some public companies don't want shareholders knowing about their aircraft because they may be viewed as frivolous luxuries.
 

PMVULB AvMgr

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pilotmiketx said:
"Hiding" airplanes as you put it is actually quite common for many people/entities. You'll find everything from 172s to 757s on the registry with obscure registered owners with addresses at some Delaware attorney's office.

The reasons are many, with liability being one of the biggies. If a judgement is made against the company, the airplane can't be used in the settlement and vice versa. I'm sure there are tax reasons as well.

Also, some public companies don't want shareholders knowing about their aircraft because they may be viewed as frivolous luxuries.

You are 100% correct. Those companies that choose to register their aircraft to LLC's or under bank names do that for the precise reason of keeping liability in case of a problem more than at arms length from the owning company. If you look at the FAA registry (link was indicated in an earlier message), and do a search on aircraft types, specifically G-4's or G-5's, I guarantee that most will come up with either banks (such as Wells Fargo) as the owner, or some obscure LLC made up by someone on the legal floor of the company actually owning the aircraft. There will be very few "true" company names listed which would be the name of the actual owner.

A terrific publication if anyone is interested that lists actual owners without the LLC's or bank fronts is JP Biz Jet 2005, put out by Brian Gates. Do a search on the web as to where to buy it.

If you were to look up N1LB and N250LB, Lehman's G-4's, they would actually be listed as Lehman Brothers/CES Aviation LLC, not just CES Aviation as indicated on the FAA site.

As far as explaining my name (PMVULB Avmgr), I'll leave figuring that out to those who are interested, I choose to remain behind that name. Let's call it my LLC!
 

mzaharis

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I was aware that most companies put their aircraft under independent companies, but why is Wells Fargo so commonly a trustee? Is that a very sophisticated version of the bank holding onto my automobile title until I pay off the loan, does Wells Fargo do aircraft management, or do they provide some other service to aircraft owners?

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nameSQL.asp?nametxt=Wells+Fargo&sort_option=5
 

h25b

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mzaharis said:
I was aware that most companies put their aircraft under independent companies, but why is Wells Fargo so commonly a trustee? Is that a very sophisticated version of the bank holding onto my automobile title until I pay off the loan, does Wells Fargo do aircraft management, or do they provide some other service to aircraft owners?

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nameSQL.asp?nametxt=Wells+Fargo&sort_option=5

Most times the reason is very simple. When a bank's name comes up it is most often the airplane is being leased to the operator and owned by the bank. Wells Fargo & GE Capital are two commonly seen registered owners. Our aircraft is owned by a separately created LLC for liability and tax reasons.
 

Barnowl

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Can anyone offer insight into the pros & cons of working for a Managed Jet place vs a traditional corporate flight department? -- If the other factors were the same (type of equipment, size of fleet).

Thanks
 

HawkerF/O

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Assets, whether owned or leased (which would be the case with banks on the registration), are required to be listed, along with the etimated value of that asset, on the company's proxy statements by the Securities and Exchange Commision, or SEC. Failure to comply with that requirement by knowingly witholding that type of information would result in civil and criminal charges being brought forth by the SEC and shareholders. Rest assured that a busines tool such as an aircraft cannot be legally hidden from shareholders of a publically traded company. The shareholders know about the aircraft if they just read the report, which they are required to be provided a copy of.

Take Lehman Brothers as an example. If they were trying to hide from shareholders, then why would they allow the tail # to end in LB on both aircraft? I'm sure they are using their current arrangement with the bank for tax and liability purposes as you mentioned previously. The only problem with this type of arrangement (Company A leasing an airplane from Bank A for the sole purpose of transporting employees of Company B, a subsidiary of Company A) is the fine line between 91 nad 135 operations, depending on how the jurisdictional FSDO views these types of arrangements
pilotmiketx said:
Also, some public companies don't want shareholders knowing about their aircraft because they may be viewed as frivolous luxuries.
 

HawkerF/O

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mzaharis said:
I was aware that most companies put their aircraft under independent companies, but why is Wells Fargo so commonly a trustee? Is that a very sophisticated version of the bank holding onto my automobile title until I pay off the loan, does Wells Fargo do aircraft management, or do they provide some other service to aircraft owners?
Like GE, another company that seems to own a lot of aircraft, Wells Fargo is the leasing company from whom the companies and airlines lease the aircraft from. Wells Fargo actually buys the aircraft new from the manufacture based on the requirements of the leasee. The company/airline then leases the aircraft from WF based upon pre-agreed terms. Unlike a car lease, the leasee is typically responsible for liquidating the aircraft once its use is no longer needed. Furthermore, the leasing company has a hold-harmless agreement with the leasee, thus removing the bank from any liability incurred by the aircraft's use should there ever be an issue brought forth by litigation.
 
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