MERGERS, first DL's Lee Moak states his view, and now the rest follow

[General Lee]

Airline pilots: We'll derail mergers if left out of talks
By LIZ FEDOR
McClatchy Tribune
Published on: 12/12/07

Minneapolis — John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, said Wednesday that his union is prepared to derail airline mergers if executives fail to involve pilots at the outset of consolidation talks.

"We have told the managements and the investment community that if consolidation is going to happen, they must come to ALPA first," Prater said in an interview after speaking to Northwest Airlines pilot leaders in Bloomington, Minn.

"We can make (mergers) work or we can destroy them," Prater said. "We are interested in mergers that form solid and profitable, long-term companies, not ones that just create a transaction so that the investors can cash out."

In his speech to the Northwest pilots, Prater said he talked about "the pitfalls of allowing management to create a US Airways-America West scenario." In that case, he said, the executives pressed ahead with a merger and "refused pay parity" for the combined pilot group.

In a merger involving ALPA pilots, Prater said that he will insist on "recovery from the bankruptcy era." He said that pilots will expect improvements in their pensions, work rules, wages and job protection.

"We will take the opportunity to help provide strong companies, but it's not going to be based upon the backs of cheap pilots," Prater said.

Pardus Capital Management, a New York-based hedge fund, tried to ignite a round of industry consolidation in mid-November when it called for Delta to merge with United Airlines. The Delta pilots union, which helped kill a hostile takeover by US Airways in January, criticized the hedge fund's attempt to push Delta and United into a quick deal.

At Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest, CEO Doug Steenland said in October that the carrier is evaluating merger scenarios, but it has not signaled whether it will initiate a deal.

Dave Stevens, chairman of the Northwest pilots union, said Wednesday that the pilots prefer that the airline remain independent and grow through alliances.

However, if a merger develops at Northwest, Stevens said that he has told Steenland and Board Chairman Roy Bostock that the pilots must benefit from the "value creation." The pilots would demand equity in the new company as well as contract improvements. Northwest pilots ratified two pay cuts — 15 percent and 23.9 percent — and agreed to other contract changes in bankruptcy that are saving Northwest more than $600 million a year in pilot costs.

Stevens said that a much broader constituency than the Northwest pilots would be affected by "who buys and who sells" in an industry consolidation.

Steve Derebey, a United pilot and union spokesman, said Wednesday that if any entity tries to force a transaction on the pilots "you'd see a marked and hostile reaction."

"We could ensure that a merger would fail," he added.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

Airline pilots: We'll derail mergers if left out of talks
By LIZ FEDOR
McClatchy Tribune
Published on: 12/12/07

Minneapolis — John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, said Wednesday that his union is prepared to derail airline mergers if executives fail to involve pilots at the outset of consolidation talks.

"We have told the managements and the investment community that if consolidation is going to happen, they must come to ALPA first," Prater said in an interview after speaking to Northwest Airlines pilot leaders in Bloomington, Minn.

"We can make (mergers) work or we can destroy them," Prater said. "We are interested in mergers that form solid and profitable, long-term companies, not ones that just create a transaction so that the investors can cash out."

In his speech to the Northwest pilots, Prater said he talked about "the pitfalls of allowing management to create a US Airways-America West scenario." In that case, he said, the executives pressed ahead with a merger and "refused pay parity" for the combined pilot group.

In a merger involving ALPA pilots, Prater said that he will insist on "recovery from the bankruptcy era." He said that pilots will expect improvements in their pensions, work rules, wages and job protection.

"We will take the opportunity to help provide strong companies, but it's not going to be based upon the backs of cheap pilots," Prater said.

Pardus Capital Management, a New York-based hedge fund, tried to ignite a round of industry consolidation in mid-November when it called for Delta to merge with United Airlines. The Delta pilots union, which helped kill a hostile takeover by US Airways in January, criticized the hedge fund's attempt to push Delta and United into a quick deal.

At Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest, CEO Doug Steenland said in October that the carrier is evaluating merger scenarios, but it has not signaled whether it will initiate a deal.

Dave Stevens, chairman of the Northwest pilots union, said Wednesday that the pilots prefer that the airline remain independent and grow through alliances.

However, if a merger develops at Northwest, Stevens said that he has told Steenland and Board Chairman Roy Bostock that the pilots must benefit from the "value creation." The pilots would demand equity in the new company as well as contract improvements. Northwest pilots ratified two pay cuts — 15 percent and 23.9 percent — and agreed to other contract changes in bankruptcy that are saving Northwest more than $600 million a year in pilot costs.

Stevens said that a much broader constituency than the Northwest pilots would be affected by "who buys and who sells" in an industry consolidation.

Steve Derebey, a United pilot and union spokesman, said Wednesday that if any entity tries to force a transaction on the pilots "you'd see a marked and hostile reaction."

"We could ensure that a merger would fail," he added.


Bye Bye--General Lee

A merger might keep your company alive, why would you want to stop it?

 

[General Lee]

A merger might keep your company alive, why would you want to stop it?

You're right, and the pilots union would have to determine if that was the case. But, if it is put together by a bunch of hedge fund jerks for their own profit and nobody elses, then that would be a bad thing. Even Dalpa said we would be open to the "right merger" if we NEEDED to do it and it was beneficial to all. (Not just Hedge fund geeks) These hedge funds can buy people like Gordon Bafoon and make them try to convince people certain mergers could work. That is ridiculous, and Lee Moak came out first and said so. (the rest just followed)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bleagle]

Two words...Allegheny Mohawk....

 

[FDJ2]

Two words...Allegheny Mohawk....

What about it?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

GL-

You are fighting a battle that you will never win my friend.

The only way to achieve more control over your own life is through financial planning that takes care of yourself since noone else will. Having said that; abandoning the outdated model that ALPA et al use is the only amicable way that I can think of to adapt to the new reality (read Deregulation Act) of airline business.

We should concede and adapt to the new reality... cange the way that our profession controls us and begin to control our profession. The only way to do this is to make ourselves portable. Meanwhile, our unions have remained the same as they were thirty years ago and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

What say you?

 

[regionaltard]

You know Gen, if I didn't know that you and 737Pylt were already an item I'd say that you have a bit of a man-crush on Mr. Moak.

I hate to break the news to you, but if enough of the guys at the top of the food pyramid want a deal to get done it's going to get done. Ensuring an airline's failure and ensuring a merger's failure are two entirely different things.

 

[General Lee]

GL-

You are fighting a battle that you will never win my friend.

The only way to achieve more control over your own life is through financial planning that takes care of yourself since noone else will. Having said that; abandoning the outdated model that ALPA et al use is the only amicable way that I can think of to adapt to the new reality (read Deregulation Act) of airline business.

We should concede and adapt to the new reality... cange the way that our profession controls us and begin to control our profession. The only way to do this is to make ourselves portable. Meanwhile, our unions have remained the same as they were thirty years ago and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

What say you?

Hey, I married rich, so I am ok financially. As far as our group goes, we pay our union to fight for us. Sometimes we are backed into a corner (when a BK judge thinks we make too much money for example), and have to do things to survive. We showed Wall St and the hedge funds what we could do with the proposed USAir buyout of Delta. Everyone on Wall St was salivating on that deal, but we mustered up the political clout to have it smashed, and we could do it again if needed. You see, the people who really can raise a stink are the local politicians. If you whip them up, and tell them they may lose their 2 RJs a day from their middle of nowhere city, they get in a huge huff. They are the most vocal, and can make CEOs like Parker sweat in front of a Senate or Congressional hearing. We have done it in the past, and we can do it again. I think our unions are finally seeing the fact that we can have a say in our own destiny.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You know Gen, if I didn't know that you and 737Pylt were already an item I'd say that you have a bit of a man-crush on Mr. Moak.

I hate to break the news to you, but if enough of the guys at the top of the food pyramid want a deal to get done it's going to get done. Ensuring an airline's failure and ensuring a merger's failure are two entirely different things.

You really are a tard. Didn't Wall St and the big hedge funds want the USAir and DL deal to go through? Right? You bet. We got the politicians involved and made sure it did not. Get the local politicians involved and things will grind to a hault. And, since you have nothing to really say here you throw in the "gay" inuendos. It's kinda sad you have to resort to that type of stuff. It says a lot about you and your lack of debating skills.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

Get the local politicians involved and things will grind to a hault.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You're kidding yourself if you think that your union has the juice to get that done on its own.

 

[General Lee]

You fell right into my trap

You're kidding yourself if you think that your union has the juice to get that done on its own.

Really? I think others may disagree, heck, I know it. Here is part of an article from THE STREET concerning why Northwest would have been a better fit than United:

"Meanwhile, the thought of a merger with United and a move of Delta's Atlanta headquarters troubled U.S. Rep Lynn Westmoreland, R-Ga., who questioned Delta CEO Richard Anderson Thursday at a House Aviation Subcommittee hearing on airlines' preparations for the holiday travel season. Westmoreland proclaimed his loyalty to Delta, saying that he represents many Delta employees and that he, his wife and daughter are former employees. He said he was disappointed to read of the merger talks, had also read Delta's denial, and wanted to hear from directly Anderson that there were no discussions.

I haven't talked to [United CEO] Glenn Tilton or any other executive at United since the last time I was in the industry four years ago," Anderson responded. "There are no discussions, there have been no discussions. I was as surprised at that AP article as you were."

Then Westmoreland declared Delta is "a southern company," adding "We don't want the family moving north. We want to keep the family in Atlanta." To which Anderson responded: "We couldn't agree with you more. It's a great airline with a great legacy that goes back to Monroe, Louisiana."
Westmoreland's comments recalled a statement by Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., in January, when US Airways (LCC - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating) CEO Doug Parker appeared before the Senate Commerce Committee to defend his proposed acquisition of Delta.


"I must say you are an aggressive suitor," Lott told Parker. "But the lady from the South -- Atlanta -- doesn't seem to want to be forced into this shotgun wedding."
In fact, that hearing provided a strong indication that while a US Airways and Delta merger may have had backing from Wall Street and from hedge funds, it wasn't popular with lawmakers. A week later, it collapsed. Perhaps Westmoreland's comments should serve as a reminder that Congress will get involved if airlines move to consolidate. Not to say there won't be mergers, but clearly regional loyalists and various opponents will have a chance to be heard."




So, our union couldn't get it done on our own, eh? Even that article stated Wall Street wanted the USAir and DL deal to go, and it did not thanks to political pressure, thanks to us. You really did fall into my trap. That was easy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

So, our union couldn't get it done on our own, eh?

Nice article. You forgot to post the part where Lee Moak said "frog" and Trent Lott jumped though.

 

[On Your Six]

Nice article. You forgot to post the part where Lee Moak said "frog" and Trent Lott jumped though.

That's a weak response. How about backing up your statements.

 

[Max Powers]

These are so fun to read......Some of you Delta guys can get so worked up.....I think these boys are messing with you.hahah

 

[General Lee]

These are so fun to read......Some of you Delta guys can get so worked up.....I think these boys are messing with you.hahah

I don't think Onyoursix is a Delta guy, and he can tell that regionaltard is acting very tard-ed. Hey, if he wants to respond that way without backing up his statements with anything of substance, he can do that. I really can't even understand tard's response. Read it again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DrunkIrishman]

"Keep Delta My Delta"

I wasn't aware that the "my Delta" drive was only done by the pilots. The entire labor force at Delta as well as the state of Georgia was behind this plan - yes? My point was that the pilot group by itself cannot accomplish the goals that the union is spouting. I heard nothing from Mr. Moak saying he would get anyone else on board.

On a side note...we will never know how serious the USAir deal was with or without the employee campaign...nonetheless, I was glad to see that it failed.

 

[regionaltard]

I don't think Onyoursix is a Delta guy, and he can tell that regionaltard is acting very tard-ed. Hey, if he wants to respond that way without backing up his statements with anything of substance, he can do that. I really can't even understand tard's response. Read it again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You've inferred that a thumbs up from Lee Moak is a necessary condition for a merger involving Delta to go forward and I say that you're as full of $hit as a Christmas goose. Find me an article that includes "in response to pressure from the Delta Pilots' union" in the context of political pressure being applied. Failing that, you might want to familiarize yourself with the differences between causation, cooperation, and coincidence.

 

[General Lee]

"Keep Delta My Delta"

I wasn't aware that the "my Delta" drive was only done by the pilots. The entire labor force at Delta as well as the state of Georgia was behind this plan - yes? My point was that the pilot group by itself cannot accomplish the goals that the union is spouting. I heard nothing from Mr. Moak saying he would get anyone else on board.

On a side note...we will never know how serious the USAir deal was with or without the employee campaign...nonetheless, I was glad to see that it failed.

Well, we had a clause in our contract that allowed us the ability to veot or approve any merger, and that was not contested by the BK judge. We also lined the Congressional hearing with Delta pilots in uniform when Parker and his one cronie spoke, so I would say we were the driving force. Our union, the only one at Delta, was instrumental in talking to Congressmen and Senators throughout that process, and Grinstein appreciated it. We weren't doing it for him though, we knew he would be gone sooner than later. We were doing it for us, and we won.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You've inferred that a thumbs up from Lee Moak is a necessary condition for a merger involving Delta to go forward and I say that you're as full of $hit as a Christmas goose. Find me an article that includes "in response to pressure from the Delta Pilots' union" in the context of political pressure being applied. Failing that, you might want to familiarize yourself with the differences between causation, cooperation, and coincidence.

So, you also didn't know about our up or down thumb vote for approval of mergers in our contract? The BK judge never contested that at all, and I think Grinstein was happy it was in there. As far as political pressure, I think our union does a great job, when needed, to gather support. We were the ones orchastrating the resistance towards USAir---not Grinstein etc. You need to re-read the article again. Grinstein didn't really know what to do, and Moak spearheaded the fight against. And, maybe the author of this article doesn't know AS MUCH AS YOU DO about Dalpa. Both articles--the one I just posted about NWA being a better fit, and the one about MOAK--both from The Street---Jim Cramer's website. Yeah, you seem to know a heck of a lot more than both authors. You should write an article about Dalpa between your Valdosta turns.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

So, you also didn't know about our up or down thumb vote for approval of mergers in our contract? The BK judge never contested that at all, and I think Grinstein was happy it was in there.

Of course he was happy. Anytime a pilot group believes in something that just isn't so, that's good for the guys in the suits. If you honestly believe that your company was wiling to abdicate rights that have been the sole prerogative of management since the dawn of time I can't even begin to imagine the other misconceptions that you must be operating under. Excepting of course the ones you've been kind enough to share with us here...

 

[Sedona16]

The bottom line is that Anderson is a smart guy.....smart enough to know that when the pilots union president has repeatedly said "you need us on board or this will never work" he'd better listen. If it is forced there will be slow downs, huge cost increases due to "by the book flying" and a hornets nest of labor unrest that will dive the company into poor customer service and unprofitablility from wence it may never return. He wont jeapardize all that just to make a merger happen. It will be with the pilots on board or not at all. You can take that to the bank.

 

[regionaltard]

The bottom line is that Anderson is a smart guy.....smart enough to know that when the pilots union president has repeatedly said "you need us on board or this will never work" he'd better listen. If it is forced there will be slow downs, huge cost increases due to "by the book flying" and a hornets nest of labor unrest that will dive the company into poor customer service and unprofitablility from wence it may never return. He wont jeapardize all that just to make a merger happen. It will be with the pilots on board or not at all. You can take that to the bank.

Do you honestly believe that the people who put these things together care what happens after their fee checks clear the bank?

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

The title of this thread is laughable.

"Moak the tough guy. A real leader."

Yeah he put up a hell of a fight. A lot of hot air then bent over just like everyone else and signed on the bottom line for concessions. It was also very impressive when the retired pilots were able to come back and fly. Another feather in the cap of advancing the pilot profession.

I think Moak still has crusted white Grin-stains on the lapel his dorky looking double breasted uniform.

 

[bleagle]

The bottom line is that Anderson is a smart guy.....smart enough to know that when the pilots union president has repeatedly said "you need us on board or this will never work" he'd better listen. If it is forced there will be slow downs, huge cost increases due to "by the book flying" and a hornets nest of labor unrest that will dive the company into poor customer service and unprofitablility from wence it may never return. He wont jeapardize all that just to make a merger happen. It will be with the pilots on board or not at all. You can take that to the bank.

Are you saying DAL has good cs?

 

[B737 Guy]

........

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You know Gen, if I didn't know that you and 737Pylt were already an item I'd say that you have a bit of a man-crush on Mr. Moak.

I hate to break the news to you, but if enough of the guys at the top of the food pyramid want a deal to get done it's going to get done. Ensuring an airline's failure and ensuring a merger's failure are two entirely different things.

General Lee makes some very valid comments, too bad you can't.
Just one question for you. Is it difficult for you to sit at the computer while your mommy changes your diaper?

 

[General Lee]

The title of this thread is laughable.

"Moak the tough guy. A real leader."

Yeah he put up a hell of a fight. A lot of hot air then bent over just like everyone else and signed on the bottom line for concessions. It was also very impressive when the retired pilots were able to come back and fly. Another feather in the cap of advancing the pilot profession.

I think Moak still has crusted white Grin-stains on the lapel his dorky looking double breasted uniform.

Wow Frank, I think you know the difference between accepting concessions while under the BK umbrella, and accepting them you're not. Heck, you have been their twice yourself with CAL.

As far as the retired pilots flying, that was due to our contract stating any pilot could give ONE DAY notice to retire--looking at the GATT Rate. That gave the company almost no notice, but did allow pilots to choose when they wanted to retire. So, at the last day of any given month during that time periond, up to 400 pilots (or all of the 777 Captains) could decide to walk or stay. The company could not keep a schedule knowing every Captain on a certain fleet could go with 24 hours notice. Allowing those guys (who were not over 60 at the time) to stay for a few months allowed us to train other people who weren't going to go. It was a win--win---we didn't park fleets and Captains could go with the best Gatt Rate available and keep some more cash. It had to be done, and nobody was over 60 years old at the time. But, you knew that, right? Whatever.

And you can only wish to have a double breasted Soviet Sub Commander uniform. The chicks dig it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Do you honestly believe that the people who put these things together care what happens after their fee checks clear the bank?

Lee Moak doesn't think so. AGAIN, you need to re-read the article. Moak even said he laughed at the hedge fund jerks when they said "you need to get this done in 90 days...." Really, you can underestimate him if you want, but he has more going for him than you ever will. But, you are the next Gordon Gecko.....?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

This thread might be better stated as "Gen Lee states his opinion and then uses his other usernames to agree with himself"

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Someone refresh my memory about what happened with Eastern/Texas International/Continental. Wasn't that can of worms protested heavily by a pilot group?

P.S. This is a legitimate question so please refrain from the scab discussion.