Melting Pot

[Sctt@NJA]

There has been a bunch of talk about pilot experience levels lately and it occurred to me that NetJets really is more of a melting pot than most places.

We have:

Military pilots of every possible background from army King Airs to airforce F-16s.

A ton of regional airline pilots with experience in everything from Beech 99s and up. (actually Cape Air C-402s and up)

A whole bunch of former mainline legacy pilots including a former #1 on the list at United.

A few pilots who came directly from flight instructing.

Pilots from the charter and corporate world.

We are a little backward in demographics with many of the most senior pilots in their 30s or 40s.

I suppose flying here gives a good opportunity to see for yourself what difference background and experience make in determining the quality of a pilot.

Personally I see almost no correlation between background and quality.

But this could be a hot topic I think... perfect for flight info. What background or experience do you think makes the best pilot?

 

[GSXR600]

My call sign.....Babagoose!!

 

[amaineiac]

What background or experience do you think makes the best pilot?

IMHO, attitude is what makes the pilot, not where they came from. I've flown with great guys from the military, airlines, corporate. I've also flow with guys that shouldn't be driving a car that came from the military, airlines, corporate.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

IMHO, attitude is what makes the pilot, not where they came from. I've flown with great guys from the military, airlines, corporate. I've also flow with guys that shouldn't be driving a car that came from the military, airlines, corporate.

Agreed. Regardless of the background the safest and most competent pilot will always be the one who recognizes that he will never know everything and always strives to be better. Also, a good/safe pilot usually recognizes what his/her limitations are and always stays within them. Having said that, some raw talent and a good knowledge base are good prerequisites, but I would say most of us have that if we've gotten this far.

 

[Go Fly]

Personal limitations

Agreed. Regardless of the background the safest and most competent pilot will always be the one who recognizes that he will never know everything and always strives to be better. Also, a good/safe pilot usually recognizes what his/her limitations are and always stays within them. Having said that, some raw talent and a good knowledge base are good prerequisites, but I would say most of us have that if we've gotten this far.

You brought up a point I've been discussing with some folks lately - flying within "his/hers limits." By the time we get to the point in our profession where we are flying for a company like NetJets shouldn't our personal limitations be set by the limits of the aircraft, company or FARs. For example, I've flown with a captain that said they wouldn't land the Ultra on a runway less than 4,000ft. Well NetJets says we are limited to 3,500ft and the book has the airplane right around 3,000ft (of course dependent on conditions). If the airplane is capable of doing it, the FARs and SOPs allow it, shouldn't we as professional pilots operating at this level also be able to do it? Of course I'll always respect someones decision not to do something based on there own safety margin but if we are operating within the limits of the aircraft it does make me question their ability to operate at this level.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Agreed. Regardless of the background the safest and most competent pilot will always be the one who recognizes that he will never know everything and always strives to be better. Also, a good/safe pilot usually recognizes what his/her limitations are and always stays within them.

Exactly...The only problem is too many type "A" personalities who are afraid to admit when they are wrong, or make a ton of excuses when they do something wrong (even the most minor thing)...These same type "A" personalities feel the need to be "instructors" on the job, and micro-manage too much. They make the job way harder than it needs to be.

 

[captain dad]

Exactly...The only problem is too many type "A" personalities who are afraid to admit when they are wrong, or make a ton of excuses when they do something wrong (even the most minor thing)...These same type "A" personalities feel the need to be "instructors" on the job, and micro-manage too much. They make the job way harder than it needs to be.

I agree. It is a team effort not a one pilot show.

As an FO, I love a partner/captain to set a humble and grateful tone on day one. You can be the quirckiest dude on earth, but if you are easy going and willing to help get the job done without the tude, it will be a great tour. Plus you won't get a bad rep.

The "I don't do that, because I'm the Captain!" types are very few and far between, but they are very memorable.

"Ya hear me TOOLBOX?" "Catch the hint?"

 

[CE750Driver]

Captain Dad, the fact that you are the biggest blowhard for NJA, and that NJA lost Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn as customers to Avaint Air over 2 years ago, makes me wonder why you don't change your avatar. Maybe if you make it something good, they will come back and suck on the tit of RTS like you.

We at NJA, can only hope. LOL

 

[Fozzy]

Discretion.
Confidentiality.
Two words that come to mind.
Hope someone has a friend of a friend that could forward that post along to Mr. Russell.
Service like that won't keep your customers around for long.

 

[blzr]

Definition..A pilot can fly themselves out of a bad situation, a "Good" pilot can avoid a bad situation before he/she gets there

 

[earhart]

Definition..A pilot can fly themselves out of a bad situation, a "Good" pilot can avoid a bad situation before he/she gets there

Ooh, Ooh, I know! I know! Is the answer; YOU'RE A C*NT?

 

[brokeflyer]

Captain Dad, the fact that you are the biggest blowhard for NJA, and that NJA lost Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn as customers to Avaint Air over 2 years ago, makes me wonder why you don't change your avatar. Maybe if you make it something good, they will come back and suck on the tit of RTS like you.

We at NJA, can only hope. LOL

weird.....i just flew a certain passenger pair just a few weeks ago....i think your info is flawed, but im not saying what info is flawed.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

NJA lost Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn as customers to Avaint Air over 2 years ago

Uh... Hmmm... Well.... Ahh...

A friend of a friend of my neighbor who once told fortunes on the Carnival circuit told me that the above mentioned statement is not true.


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[landlover]

best pilots? the short answer


freight dogs!


but at the end of the day who really cares where you came from, as long as you are fun and don't kill us all.

 

[Pervis]

An even shorter answer, regardless of age or experience. Ability. How you handle your pax or freight is a different issue all together.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I agree. It is a team effort not a one pilot show.

As an FO, I love a partner/captain to set a humble and grateful tone on day one. You can be the quirckiest dude on earth, but if you are easy going and willing to help get the job done without the tude, it will be a great tour. Plus you won't get a bad rep.

The "I don't do that, because I'm the Captain!" types are very few and far between, but they are very memorable.

"Ya hear me TOOLBOX?" "Catch the hint?"

Exactly, I consider myself a fairly "cool" individual. (Meaning I have a lot of things in my life outside of flying, and 9 outta 10friends aren't pilots.) I don't care if your the biggest nerd on the planet as long as your easy to get along with in the plane. I've flown with guys in my age group who i thought would have been easy to fly with. Only to find out they annoy the hell outta me.

I don't mind a guy who does every little thing by the book etc.. As long as they don't treat me like a know-nothing SIC.. Or think they know everything.

Example...I usually turn on the Landing lights when we get down to approach stages of flt. Just a habit from airline days.

The X has a pretty bright set of recog. lights. That basically do the same thing as Landing lights. This one guy asks why I do that since the recog. lights do the same thing. I told him just force of habit since the other planes I flew for 5000 hours didn't have recogs. He turns the landing lights off and says we don't need them on.

I guess that was the end of that.. Even though it hurt nothing to have the landing lights on..

Small things like that annoy the hell outta me.

 

[greygoose]

The X has a pretty bright set of recog. lights. That basically do the same thing as Landing lights. This one guy asks why I do that since the recog. lights do the same thing. I told him just force of habit since the other planes I flew for 5000 hours didn't have recogs. He turns the landing lights off and says we don't need them on.

I guess that was the end of that.. Even though it hurt nothing to have the landing lights on..

Small things like that annoy the hell outta me.

Maybe acting like a crew and talking to him about it, instead of turning them on yourself would help out. You just bashed the PIC for being a know it all, but yet you are acting superior above your partner and turning them on because of your habit.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Maybe acting like a crew and talking to him about it, instead of turning them on yourself would help out. You just bashed the PIC for being a know it all, but yet you are acting superior above your partner and turning them on because of your habit.

It's absolutely amazing to see that no matter what someone writes, there's always a dickhead lurking in the shadows ready to pounce. Unreal man.

Yeah, now lecture me about SOPs cause I don't know anything about them.

 

[Pervis]

CRJ, I've been in the X for almost 5 years. For the sake of discusion, as a technique only, which I brief to each new crewmate I fly with, The landing and taxi lights go out with the gear retraction. Hand slides over to flap lever and is ready for the command. Comes in handy at times when ATC calls and other distractions may break your normal routine. The landing and taxi lights come on upon gear extension as well. Ties two items together nice and neatly.

As you said, the recog lights are nearly as bright. With that slightly lower wattage though, my technique may also save the light elements, as the extreme heat and cold they go through each cycle can shorten their life at the higher setting, without gaining addition visibility for other a/c. Besides, the taxi light goes out with retraction anyway, and you reduce your workload to one panel when passing 18,000' in either direction. Not really that big a deal, but I do try and reduce as much workload as I can in the air so I can pay attention to more important matters.

Don't get insulted, but I would suggest you learn to "forget" what you did in other a/c or companies. Flight experience will naturally carry over, but each a/c and company who flies them have there own procedures, as well as each pilot. And every pilot has their own techniques. Techniques should be discussed by all or suggested by more experienced crewmates, but the procedures you may find contrary to your past are not debatable without just cause, like emer situations.

The attitude that "we did it this way at XYZ..." is typical for younger pilots. We all go through this stage. The question is, will you, like most, get over it?

After flying nearly 40 a/c in 34 years, including 2 turbo props and 6 jets in my career, I have also found it far easier on my continually diminishing brain cell capacity to dump past practice and dissimilar a/c specific items. In addition, I don't waste energy thinking my crewmate is a jerk for wanting to do it his/her way, regardless of who the senior crewmate is.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Maybe acting like a crew and talking to him about it, instead of turning them on yourself would help out. You just bashed the PIC for being a know it all, but yet you are acting superior above your partner and turning them on because of your habit.

Maybe your one of the Castro's we're talking about. This is not a PIC vs. SIC debate. It's a douch.bag vs. non-douch.ebag debate. Anyone can be a a$$ in the cockpit. It's how you go about things that seperate us all.

Do I really need the PIC's approval to turn on the landing lights at 3000ft. being vectored for final? REALLY? I'd hate to have to be in your cockpit.

I'm as chamilian like as anyone at NJ. I try to go with the flow as much as possible. Been an SIC for 9yrs. and have no intention of ACTING as a PIC until I have a 4th stripe.