Melting Pot

[CRJFlyer]

Now just for the sake of this post, and my previous example of MICRO-Managing..

Why would you as PIC feel the need to inform me(or any pilot at this level) about how to go about moving your hand from the lights to the flaps? I would think most people would feel that you think they are are moron and need instruction about how to do this. I would think most pilots have they're own cues about getting the flaps up as closly to 400 ft. as possible. Mine is visually looking at the RA, seeing 400', nd calling 400'.

If you had informed me about how to get the flaps up, I would probably have to hand you a $20.00 and say thanks for the instruction.

BTW age has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. My 20+ A/C, 1 turbo-prop and 3 jets in 13 years probably suffices to get landing lights on. My 4 companies in 9 years of pax service gives me a decent ability to forget the last company.

 

[CRJFlyer]

duplicate post

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Now, now boys (Pervis and CRJFlyer) play nice or you'll both be told to leave the sandbox for the afternoon.
Hey, are you both in the X? If yes, that'll make for an interesting time. Play nice. :beer:

 

[Hugh Johnson]

NetJets suffers the same problems as the airline industry in that it has to focus on the lowest common denominator pilot. With union protection, you can't get rid of the marginal performers.

 

[brokeflyer]

yes its sad that we need a union in this industry.

 

[Pervis]

CRJ, I was simply discussing technique, not trying to give you instruction. I thought I was clear in my post. It seems you read what you wanted to read rather than what I intended. I always listen to the techniques of everyone I fly with. It appears you don't.

 

[FLYLOW22]

NetJets suffers the same problems as the airline industry in that it has to focus on the lowest common denominator pilot. With union protection, you can't get rid of the marginal performers.

Oh sure! Leave it to "Hugh Johnson" to criticize "average" performance.

 

[CRJFlyer]

"The attitude that "we did it this way at XYZ..." is typical for younger pilots. We all go through this stage. The question is, will you, like most, get over it?'

For the sake of discussion.... all I did was make an example about a topic/conversation I was having with another poster about different types of people in the aviation business.( a simple landing lights example and how some guys are micro-managers and some are not.)

and on cue you turned it into a literal conversation with your own personal opinions about proper landing light usage. And a pre-determined opinion about how my age(which you have no clue about), or past companies somehow played a role in the current example. Which is all it was, an example. I wasn't looking for anyone's opinion about landing lights. If I want that I'll go to recurrent and ask. Because as we know opinions are like a.ssholes...

I've learned alot from alot of different pilots. I've also left the cockpit scatching my head wondering what the heck the other guy was thinking about. If it's something I like or am curious about I'll ask. If not then I don't. But at this stage of the game we've all got our own personal techniques that adhere to the SOP's. I myself am not an "A" type person. I don't need to strut my knowledge around or have to be right all the time. I'm happy just nodding my head in agreement until the next guy tries show me his technique and then I do the same with that guy.

So until we fly together, I guess I'll continue to turn the landing lights on when I think about them on approach. And then when you tell me not to until the gear down checklist, we'll know who each other is.
Take care.:beer:

PS ...it was the age reference that rattled my cage...I started in the airlines at 21 and have been getting the same age crap for a long time. Don't worry though, I'll get over it.:nuts:

 

[Hogprint]

You brought up a point I've been discussing with some folks lately - flying within "his/hers limits." By the time we get to the point in our profession where we are flying for a company like NetJets shouldn't our personal limitations be set by the limits of the aircraft, company or FARs. For example, I've flown with a captain that said they wouldn't land the Ultra on a runway less than 4,000ft. Well NetJets says we are limited to 3,500ft and the book has the airplane right around 3,000ft (of course dependent on conditions). If the airplane is capable of doing it, the FARs and SOPs allow it, shouldn't we as professional pilots operating at this level also be able to do it? Of course I'll always respect someones decision not to do something based on there own safety margin but if we are operating within the limits of the aircraft it does make me question their ability to operate at this level.

In short yes. We should be able to do it and staying with your example of short runways we have now been training in the sim for that scenario for at least three years.

I think guys get used to landing on 5k+ runways and then in the middle of a tour get that Cable Union call or Leaky, TX and they haven't gone into a smaller field in a while or since the sim (which is totally flat and coastal environment). Now the pucker factor goes up.

I had a few tours several summers ago where we were going into 4000' or smaller fields almost every day. Once you get used to it, it was no big deal. The plane will do it and then some.

I guess it's just a mindset.

 

[Semore Butts]

I was waiting for the Netjets Bid?

I proposed to Netjets that they open up a Tactical Branch. (I just read "What Color Is Your Parachute, trying to create a cush management job because I'm smarter then a line pilot (I've heard that before?)).

I can teach you how to get an Ultra from Altitude to "Flare" in 20 miles and in the dark! (What a stud!) Using only residual light from Bagdad!

Someone taught me, and now I can teach you.

My point is, you can train for various situations.

3500 foot runway is one of those. It's just about training for it.

If you haven't been training for it, I would think you were stupid not to be apprehensive. (Except of course Gold CFI's)

Just because the FOM says you can do it doesn't you can blindly do it? (I.E. Wet?) Can you "de-rate" the runway (Ask a HAwker Pilot)

Words to live by;

To throw soldiers into battle untrained is to throw them away. (Sun Tzu, book of War, Not quite a qoute)

"Usually the person trying to get you to do something stupid is in the chain off authority that will be hanging your a$$ when it turns out f-cked up"! Semore Butts, 2007, Bagram Afghanistan.

(They wanted use to deliver some urgent supplies (and they were urgent) to a 4000 foot strip at the 8000 foot level. When I ask why the helicopters wouldn't do it the answer was "the weather is to bad for the helicopters". Lastly, the first 1000 feet of runway was PSP (Metal Grating)

FOM say 3500 feet? We had 4000....Good to go...right?

Have a good one. Great Melting pot thread, I have learned from every kind of pilot I have flown with at Netjets (And the Flexjets guys I've flown with "Rock"), Freight Dogs, Commuters, Even Air Force! ! I wish I could tell them all how much what they taught came in handy in some tight spots overseas!

Have a goon one, Semore.

 

[Pervis]

CRJ, all is good. I didn't mean to come across as all knowing, rather discuss why the lights thing made sense to me. However, neither one of us really has a choice as to when they go off. SOPs dictate they go off at gear retraction, before flap retraction. Indicated in the PF/PM matrixes near the back of the SOPs. I guess that's part of what caught my eye in your post. Past company practice can match or come close to current ops. But since they are sometimes contrary, that's why I said we all need to learn to dump the old for the new so to speak. Sometimes anyway. I need to on a daily basis, as I currently borrow the brain cells required.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Oh sure! Leave it to "Hugh Johnson" to criticize "average" performance.

Now that is funny!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just found this. So much for all your experience and mightier than thou attitude. You should be proud.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]First Ab Initio Pilots Enter NetJets Europe Ranks
NetJets Europe has introduced into its workforce the first nine new pilots to complete its ab initio training program. The pilots joined the company’s flight crew roster in November and December, having graduated from the course run for the fractional ownership provider by Oxford Aviation Training in the UK. A further 38 ab initio pilots are due to graduate this year, followed by 21 more next year. The company has indicated that it will review plans for further ab initio courses and may “adjust future intakes” in response to market conditions. “The ab initio pilots from the NetJets program at Oxford are of the highest caliber,” said NetJets director of European operations Christopher Randle. “Not only did they graduate at the top of their class, our own trainers and the simulator trainers at FlightSafety [International] have been extremely impressed with the quality of their airmanship and handling skills.” NetJets Europe started the first of the 17-month ab initio training programs in May to meet its growing need for pilots. The plan was to train up to 45 new first officers each year.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]

 

[Crash Pad]

Oh my my...

 

[brokeflyer]

yeah but they aint "captains"......

your apology will be accepted....

 

[bluepost]

I'm not looking fwd to flying with either Pervis or CRJ.....

 

[172driver]

Personally, I don't want to hear anyone's techniques or suggestions. I have my own and, like any good pilot, I'm very observant. When you do something I haven't seen before, if I like, dislike, or don't understand it, I will ask. Hopefully I will learn something. The guy that's full of unsolicited suggestions is very irritating to me. Do you really think I haven't heard or thought about that before?

 

[CRJFlyer]

The exact point I was attempting to make..I think I failed to the first try...thanks

 

[CRJFlyer]

I'm not looking fwd to flying with either Pervis or CRJ.....

Depends if you like talking about sports/girls/sports or jimmy buffett concerts you've been to....And if your a Yankees fan, then we can have a good debate..Also if you like to just fly the trips as easy and without hassle as possible...then we'll get along great..

If you like to talk shop all day, or how your way smarter than the president.And how everyone else is an idiot. Then probably not..

 

[bluepost]

Depends if you like talking about sports/girls/sports or jimmy buffett concerts you've been to....And if your a Yankees fan, then we can have a good debate..Also if you like to just fly the trips as easy and without hassle as possible...then we'll get along great..

If you like to talk shop all day, or how your way smarter than the president.And how everyone else is an idiot. Then probably not..

A little too obvious I know...but which President?