MEI Rating

[AK47]

61.195 Flight Instructor Limitations and qualifications:
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating.

That's for Aircraft ratings.

Take a look at 14 CFR 61.195 (c)

 

[nosehair]

That's for Aircraft ratings.

Take a look at 14 CFR 61.195 (c)

I know the debate. I've read it many times. I'm on the side of having to have the MEI to instruct anything in a ME.

I do not think that an online FAQ opinion from J. Lynch, or an old 8700.1 Inspector's Handbook will override a judge's interpretation of the regulation as it now stands.

For one, I know, and the judge knows, that the 8700.1 handbook is notriously outdated. True. Sometimes it is years before the habdbook is caught up with training regulation changes. They are focused on airline regulatory changes.
It holds no regulatory authority - like an advisory circular. It is an employee's guide on how to perform job tasks.

Aircraft ratings? What is that? I don't know of any instruction that is in any regulations required for the issuance of an Aircraft rating. The closest thing might be TYPE rating, and there is a reg to cover that.

So, we have to assume that it means instruction in any aircraft.

Further, if you dissect (c), it says:"...must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided."

"category and class"...I think the judge can be talked into understanding that means ASEL and/or AMEL with IA ratings.

Hey! I don't make the rules. I try to follow them as best as I can interpret them

It did not used to read this way. The big change in '97 (Holy Cow! It's been 10 years now) added this verbage. I did get some multi-time back in the day as an instrument instructor before I got my MEI, and if it is done cautiously, I don't see the problem. As a matter of fact, way furthur back when I was a younger CFI, that was the rating - CFI. Period.

You could instruct whatever was on your commercial. You didn't have to have an instrument rating to be a CFI. Getting an instrument rating, or ME rating added to your commercial automatically made you an instructor in that area. That changed in the '70's.

Anyway, this change of '97 has not caught up with the old fossels who still give 'legal opinions' based on past years. Even when we read the current regs, it is easy to 'read into' old hardwired concepts. I do it all the time.

It is only because I read these boards that I have become aware of conceptual changes.

I am just advising the potential problem with the NTSB law judge and/or the insurance carrier if something happens.

The regulation speaks for itself. You are reading into it what you want it to say.

I used to do the same with the term PIC. When I read 61.51 logging PIC time, I was automatically reading PIC as meaning the actual PIC - the person who IS the PIC, and these are the logging rules for that person. It never occured to me that it could be a person not qualified to be the PIC, and yet, here are some rules for logging PIC, when you're not the PIC.

It's a regulatory mess created by our fumbling government.

And you should know that ignorance of the government is no excuse.

 

[VW Pilot]

So can you do this??? After Instrument ASEL Can you get all the ratings and certificates in between Commercial (Like CFI, CFII, MEI....MEI with the exception that you have a Multi-engine rating)

Is this what 141 schools do? Do they get you the Private through MEI then Commercial so you can use them?

 

[Junkflyer]

Yes you can start with an mei no double i stuff. That's exactly what I did-I don't have a single engine commercial. You can't do instrument training if it is a non-instrument rated pilot, but okay if they are. I don't have a cfii I did train someone for an atp multi no problem from the feds.

 

[AK47]

I know the debate. I've read it many times. I'm on the side of having to have the MEI to instruct anything in a ME.

I do not think that an online FAQ opinion from J. Lynch, or an old 8700.1 Inspector's Handbook will override a judge's interpretation of the regulation as it now stands.

For one, I know, and the judge knows, that the 8700.1 handbook is notriously outdated. True. Sometimes it is years before the habdbook is caught up with training regulation changes. They are focused on airline regulatory changes.
It holds no regulatory authority - like an advisory circular. It is an employee's guide on how to perform job tasks.

Aircraft ratings? What is that? I don't know of any instruction that is in any regulations required for the issuance of an Aircraft rating. The closest thing might be TYPE rating, and there is a reg to cover that.

So, we have to assume that it means instruction in any aircraft.

Further, if you dissect (c), it says:"...must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided."

"category and class"...I think the judge can be talked into understanding that means ASEL and/or AMEL with IA ratings.

Hey! I don't make the rules. I try to follow them as best as I can interpret them

It did not used to read this way. The big change in '97 (Holy Cow! It's been 10 years now) added this verbage. I did get some multi-time back in the day as an instrument instructor before I got my MEI, and if it is done cautiously, I don't see the problem. As a matter of fact, way furthur back when I was a younger CFI, that was the rating - CFI. Period.

You could instruct whatever was on your commercial. You didn't have to have an instrument rating to be a CFI. Getting an instrument rating, or ME rating added to your commercial automatically made you an instructor in that area. That changed in the '70's.

Anyway, this change of '97 has not caught up with the old fossels who still give 'legal opinions' based on past years. Even when we read the current regs, it is easy to 'read into' old hardwired concepts. I do it all the time.

It is only because I read these boards that I have become aware of conceptual changes.

I am just advising the potential problem with the NTSB law judge and/or the insurance carrier if something happens.

The regulation speaks for itself. You are reading into it what you want it to say.

I used to do the same with the term PIC. When I read 61.51 logging PIC time, I was automatically reading PIC as meaning the actual PIC - the person who IS the PIC, and these are the logging rules for that person. It never occured to me that it could be a person not qualified to be the PIC, and yet, here are some rules for logging PIC, when you're not the PIC.

It's a regulatory mess created by our fumbling government.

And you should know that ignorance of the government is no excuse.

I know of this debate as well. But if we treat 14 CFR 61.195 (b) the way you suggest it needs to be treated then CFI-IA without CFI-ASE and/or CFI-AME is more limited than CGI-I (IGI) because you can't do any flight training nor you can't do ground for anything but A.

All I am saying the regulations allow it - would I recommend it, probably not.

 

[AK47]

So can you do this??? After Instrument ASEL Can you get all the ratings and certificates in between Commercial (Like CFI, CFII, MEI....MEI with the exception that you have a Multi-engine rating)

Is this what 141 schools do? Do they get you the Private through MEI then Commercial so you can use them?

read 14 CFR 61.183 (c)

 

[AK47]

Yes you can start with an mei no double i stuff. That's exactly what I did-I don't have a single engine commercial. You can't do instrument training if it is a non-instrument rated pilot, but okay if they are. I don't have a cfii I did train someone for an atp multi no problem from the feds.

More precisely, you can't do instrument training if it is a non-instrument rated pilot or if training is for a type rating not limited to VFR.

 

[flyer172r]

So can you do this??? After Instrument ASEL Can you get all the ratings and certificates in between Commercial (Like CFI, CFII, MEI....MEI with the exception that you have a Multi-engine rating)

Is this what 141 schools do? Do they get you the Private through MEI then Commercial so you can use them?

Gotta have a commercial before you can get any CFI ratings.

 

[VW Pilot]

Gotta have a commercial before you can get any CFI ratings.

Strange...My Instructor told me I could get a CFI After my Instrument...But I couldn't use it until I recieved the commercial Certificate...I'll read up on it.

Oh and as for CFR 65.183 (c) must be in the 2007 AIM....Don't have a current copy yet. looked all over ASA's 2006 AIM and Aviation Week's 2006 AIM..Not there. STILL LOOKIN JUST INCASE....he he he..

 

[AK47]

Strange...My Instructor told me I could get a CFI After my Instrument...But I couldn't use it until I recieved the commercial Certificate...I'll read up on it.

Oh and as for CFR 65.183 (c) must be in the 2007 AIM....Don't have a current copy yet. looked all over ASA's 2006 AIM and Aviation Week's 2006 AIM..Not there. STILL LOOKIN JUST INCASE....he he he..

14 CFR 61.183 (c), page 110 in ASA FAR/AIM 2006