MDA-RP transaction

[KingAirer]

I read that the MDA is not happy about the job offer proposals that RP has given. What is MDA looking for, DOH base on MDA, DOH by USAir/WO list?, or something else?

 

[blzr]

Dude, that is a whole 'nother can of worms.

My best to my buds at MDA who have been gang raped too many times to count.

 

[WSurf]

True, and I don't think anyone will even be flowing back to the WO's!

 

[StarChecker]

I read that the MDA is not happy about the job offer proposals that RP has given. What is MDA looking for, DOH base on MDA, DOH by USAir/WO list?, or something else?

ALPA wants some kind of super-seniority that is just not gonna happen. We're probably gonna take 50% of them....to the bottom of our list.


CHQ management is treating this as an asset sale. They are abiding by current J4J agreements and those aircraft will be staffed by 50% MDA people...50% CHQ people. Looks like the current MDA bases will become CHQ bases...good news for all our PIT folks.

 

[sweptback]

ALPA wants some kind of super-seniority that is just not gonna happen. We're probably gonna take 50% of them....to the bottom of our list.


CHQ management is treating this as an asset sale. They are abiding by current J4J agreements and those aircraft will be staffed by 50% MDA people...50% CHQ people. Looks like the current MDA bases will become CHQ bases...good news for all our PIT folks.

Yes, never mind the fact that some of these guys have been with USAir since some CHQ pilots have been in grade school, it's their fault for getting hired at the wrong airline. They should have seen what was coming and came to Chautauqua.

I know the prospect of getting all these shiny new jets is just making a boner pop out of your collective pants, but do you honestly think that taking half of the MDA guys and saying f--- you, and taking the other half and putting them on the bottom of your list is the right thing to do?

 

[FR8mastr]

Not to mention the windfall that is about to come to CHQ. they are getting 170's for United, they are getting 170's and 190's for Airways. They cant staff these aircraft without hiring a bunch of guys, But that is not good enough they want half of the jobs in the 25 lousy aircraft that are already flying and staffed. Never mind the fact that as soon as is humanly possible the Airways pilots will get away from CHQ, leaving those 25 aircraft all to CHQ as well. Yea I really feel bad for those poor CHQ pilots that will all be flying new 170's. Dont worry guys what comes around goes around.

 

[lear24]

All of this at 19 dollars an hour. For a 70 seat jet. It's enough to make me sick. (forgive me if my 19 dollars an hour rate is a little off, it's what I've read and heard)

 

[FlyingDawg]

MDA wants 100% staffing and super seniority. From what I understand they have filed a lawsuit against Airways and ALPA.

I say live by the deal you (U pilots) signed and agreed to under J4J. 32 aircraft will fall under J4J. Those will be 50% staffed by US furloughed pilots. The MDA pilots who worked at WO's don't fall into the APL list and are not included in the J4J deal. Not sure what will happen to the pilots who turned down a job offer under J4J last time around. The company/union is looking into the LOA's to see if they are obligated to offer position to pilots who turned down offers in the past.

Since when does selling aircraft to another airline constitute a transfer of jobs with the aircraft? In addition some of these aircraft might be flying for other codeshares since Doug Parker will downsize the combined fleet. I haven't read the plan filed with the BK court yesterday, but this is a posibility.

 

[OldManPilot]

Ok, i'll take on these remarks. I have several friends that are furloughed US Airways pilots and they seem to understand these points.

1. It is an asset sale, and CHQ/RP will abide by the current J4J agreement with regards to staffing U aircraft up to 32 airframes. Past that it will require an ammended agreement by CHQ pilots via a vote.

2. MDA pilots were given a chance to join the J4J program at CHQ 2 yrs ago prior to the start of MDA. We even had several come to CHQ then leave to go to MDA. We have many still at CHQ and they would not want anyone to be aloud to come in above their seniority.

3. E190's is by no means a "done deal". It has not been negotiated
with the pilots, nor has any agreement to us (CHQ/RP/S5) even recieving any been announced. Would we like to have them on property, yes we would, but not at any expense. This will be discussed within our pilot group when and if the need arises.

4. E190 pay scale. Cpt. 1yr. 61.89--- 5yr. 74.37--- 10yr. 86.63-- 15yr. 100.87--- 20yr. 119.32 (these rates are as of OCT 1, 2005.) F/O pay scale is the same for all a/c. --- 1yr. 22.06 --- 2yr. 29.68--- 3yr. 34.15---4yr. 35.20 (rates agains as of OCT 1, 2005)

It seems no merger/aquisition is an easy task. It is up to each union to best represent its membership. We like all other work groups are not heartless, do anything to get more aircraft type pilots; however, it is the obligation of our union to look out for our best interest. It seems that the best deal is reached when all parties are unhappy about the results. ALPA will try to reach the best agreement for it pilots; however, it seems that currently there is no issue with CHQ for ALPA to bargain. RP is not owned in any part by US Airways, thus has no obligation to take the pilots along with the airframes (assets). ALPA does however have several justifiable grievances with US Airways conserning the sale of these assets. I am sure they will pursue those issues. I also understand that a lawsuit is in the works between the pilots of MDA and ALPA. I am sure more will be listed about that in the comming weeks.

I hope this helps to answer the above questions. Continue to fly safe and look out for each other!

my $.02

 

[8HourPilot]

All of this at 19 dollars an hour. For a 70 seat jet. It's enough to make me sick. (forgive me if my 19 dollars an hour rate is a little off, it's what I've read and heard)

...and how is this any different from any other 70 seat carrier? skyw, mesa, psa, asa, eagle.....all the same fo rates give or take a buck or two...

 

[bvt1151]

Those FO rates are rediculous!

 

[HughBeamont]

Hey CHQ pilots: those MDA pilots are trying to take food out of your families' mouths! Staple them just like you wanted to staple the Shuttle pilots!

 

[StarChecker]

Yes, never mind the fact that some of these guys have been with USAir since some CHQ pilots have been in grade school, it's their fault for getting hired at the wrong airline. They should have seen what was coming and came to Chautauqua.

I know the prospect of getting all these shiny new jets is just making a boner pop out of your collective pants, but do you honestly think that taking half of the MDA guys and saying f--- you, and taking the other half and putting them on the bottom of your list is the right thing to do?

We have J4J guys on board now. They have been here for almost 2 years and they are a tremendous asset to our company. I know the MDA guys have been around the block, but that means b/c my company is buying their airplanes, they should come on my seniority list ahead of me and most of our pilots? Not gonna happen.

As for the "shiny new jets" (that phrase needs to stop)...we get shiny new jets every week. It doesn't excite us...I show up for work and fly where they tell me.

By the way.....eat me.

 

[Traumahawk]

Hey I'm a little foggy....

How many furloughed mainline guys did Comair pick up? And how many of them got DOH seniority??

I just...man I can't remember.

 

[DoinTime]

ALPA will try to reach the best agreement for it pilots; however, it seems that currently there is no issue with CHQ for ALPA to bargain.

Perhaps you have never heard of ALPA's fragmentation policy? I realize that the teamsters have precious little insight into the history of the airline business but asset sales/fragmentations have occurred many times over in the past. "Industry practice" is what the arbitrator will go to determine the outcome of this acquisition.

 

[blzr]

Those FO rates are rediculous!

THey seem fairly good for the regionals.

 

[StarChecker]

"Industry practice" is what the arbitrator will go to determine the outcome of this acquisition.

This is NOT an acquisition. We're buying airplanes and gates from USAirways.

 

[nimtz]

Of course CHQ guys favor a staple of both MDA and SA. Be far warned though all this stapling causes ill will and factionalism to breed amongst the pilot group. What becomes a windfall to some becomes a long held grudge to others.

Simply means next time you go into negotiations you have the makings of a disorganized pilot group. I hope that won't be the case. The profession as a whole needs CHQ guys to make sizeable gains in their next contract, especially in the 70-99 seat category...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Whats a regional? Last time I checked these airlines fly nationwide, internationally, and are now flying airplanes with 90+ passengers.

Those payrates are lousy for an airline pilot. Period.

The Boeing 717 has about 100 seats. What is AirTran's starting F/O pay for those extra 10 passengers?

 

[low-key]

Airways ALPA would F*CK anyone who came their way. Put the shoe on the other foot and you tell me what would happen. For all you out there with in opinion, theyre like a$$holes, we all got one. So dont make Airways ALPA out to be some super awesome group of nice people, because theyre not, they would f*ck us just as quick as they could. I guarantee it. Besides ALPA sucks anyways why do you guys defend them all the time. MESA's pos CBA is because of Duane Woerth. He aint worth crap.

 

[KingAirer]

Whats a regional? Last time I checked these airlines fly nationwide, internationally, and are now flying airplanes with 90+ passengers.

Those payrates are lousy for an airline pilot. Period.

The Boeing 717 has about 100 seats. What is AirTran's starting F/O pay for those extra 10 passengers?

The E195 has 106 seats as does the 717. The lines are not blurred anymore. These airplanes are not RJs. The rates need to reflect this.

 

[Corbon]

Why is it all of a sudden we're supposed to be a charity organization and give out DOH seniority like it's candy? For all the flak we're taking from the cheap seats, I seriously doubt many, if any of the other airlines, would give anybody DOH under these current circumstances. It's easy to chastize when it's happening to someone else. I guess when ALPA protects someones job or seniority (does that happen anymore?) it's a nobel move, but Heaven forbid the Chautauqua pilots with our Teamster representation do the same. When WE look out for our own, we're just selfish punks who will do anything for another new jet.
As far as the purchase of MDA planes, it is an ASSET only purchase. We have no legal or moral obligation to take pilots when this deal goes through. If Delta all of a sudden decided it wanted to buy 15 of our E-170s for their mainline fleet, do you think the top 150 Chautauqua pilots would just automatically be transfered over to Delta with their DOH? ALPA would laugh in our faces. Not even a remote chance. This situation is no different. Any issues the MDA pilots have with this deal is between them and ALPA, for letting U get away with this if it happens.
To address the comment that some of the U guys were flying while I and many others here were in grade school, yeah..probably so. What's your point? I OWE it to them to give up my seniority just because they've been around longer than me? If that's the way you feel, let them come over onto YOUR seniority list in front of YOU. After all, they deserve it, right? Maybe you could have nice warm group hugs in the crew room because you took gladly took a hit on the seniority list for a furloughed mainline driver. "Oh no, I didn't mean for it to happen to ME but it should happen to you" seems to be the standard stink of hypocrisy here. I can't even fathom that some people think we should let them come over here with their U DOH. As Traumahawk mentioned, If that is the general consensus on what we should do, then why doesn't anyone criticize Comair or ASA for not just letting the furloughed Delta boys walk right into the left seat on the CRJs with their Delta DOH, all out of the goodness of their hearts? After all, those CRJs are replacing many mainline routes which replace mainline pilots. The least that could happen is the furloughees wait it out, until they get recalled, as CRJ700 captains with good lines...you know, weekends off, holidays off, commutable schedules. Everyone cool with that?

 

[I.P. Freley]

The E195 has 106 seats as does the 717.

AirTran's 717 has 117 seats, not 106.

 

[KingAirer]

Good for them. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/717/717technical.html
http://www.embraer.com/

 

[I.P. Freley]

The Boeing 717 has about 100 seats. What is AirTran's starting F/O pay for those extra 10 passengers?

The only operator of a 90-seat airplane that I'm aware of is Mesa, who have 25 CRJ900's (according to airlinepilotcentral... but I don't know if the CRJ900's at Mesa are actually configured for 90 seats). Their pay rates are just over half of the pay rates of AirTran in the 717... Or just over $20/hr less per year, if we're talking about FO rates.

And that's 27 more passengers, not 10.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Good for them.

Don't shoot the messenger, you're the one who said they only had 106 seats.

 

[KingAirer]

Send Boeing an email and tell them to update their page. Doesnt make a difference to me. There isnt a difference in an E190 and a B717 to me, and there shouldnt be a difference in pay.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Send Boeing an email and tell them to update their page. Doesnt make a difference to me. There isnt a difference in an E190 and a B717 to me, and there shouldnt be a difference in pay.

I don't need to send Boeing an email when I can go to AirTran's site and read the number the operator posts on their own page.

Again, no need to get pissy with ME, I was just pointing out your discrepancy with not a snide comment to be seen.

 

[KingAirer]

Did I ever mention Airtran??

 

[labbats]

Send Boeing an email and tell them to update their page. Doesnt make a difference to me. There isnt a difference in an E190 and a B717 to me, and there shouldnt be a difference in pay.

You can wax poetic about what should be all day, but the fact of the matter is that capitalism has gone too far. Mom and Pop companies cutting labor to the bone to enter market share isn't healthy or safe, regardless of what travelocity.com tells you.