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Sy-bill said:
Stalking you? Get over yourself.

Eight years can be considered a neurotic grudge about something as insignificant as an avatar.

Isn't name calling something more of a grade school mentality? Sure it is.

I may have your name wrong, but the SWA people certainly do not.

Good luck staying on the outside.
Click to expand...


I see your sense of humor hasn't improved any.

Sucks to be you. :laugh:

.
 
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Oddly enough I don't perceive posters like Ty, Dicko, Lear70 (in the day), Freightdog, dc9Capt etc as particularily anti-SWA, just very pro-AAI...which was a great airline, but as we all know that is why it was purchased by SWA...the fumbling of the integration by AAI/ALPA and SWAPA is just a fall-out of mgmts desire to get the ISL ironed out sans arbitration, which was a homerun for the company (could you imagine if we were still dealing with an arbitrated solution, ala USAIR/AMWest on TOP of trying to do everything else)... there will always be a subset of pilots who feel that they were treated unfairly...on both sides...I say we are all just numbers on a list subject to the decisions of mgmt, but on the flip side we enjoy one of the best UNION jobs in America...we are all very fortunate to work at a strong company...
 
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StopNTSing said:
Yes we do. Show me your math to get those numbers, Ty.....oh, and using "our ALPA Sec-Tres said so" won't cut it, BTW.

Then I'll show you my math that would seem to indicate otherwise. (Hint: Rates tell only half the story when determining actual pay)
Click to expand...

Based on the numbers I'm looking at I don't think the average Joe AT CA who bids a line and flies it is going to take anything anywhere near a 30% pay reduction if they fly the same number of days as a SW FO. The senior CA's will get hurt the most and the CA's on reserve will probably do better.

I think in too many cases the guys who are doing a lot of extra and premium flying at AT are comparing their W2's to either guarantee or a normal line with no extra days picked up at SW. You can't compare 18 days off with 14 or 15 and call that a fair comparison. Look at a CA 50% up the AT CA list who bids a line and flies it as bid compared to that same pilot as a SW FO flying the same number of days.

Don't get me wrong, I think the AT CA's should have had their rates protected at the greater of AT CA or SW FO so nobody loses money and I hate to see anybody on either side have to lose their base but when it comes to what the typical pilot gets paid there is a lot of bad information.
 
Ty Webb said:
AAI CA --> SWA FO = $30K pay CUT

AAI FO --> SWA FO = $30K pay RAISE (or more)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who is taking a 30k pay cut. Is that number based on comparing 15 year AT CA to 12 year SWA FO? Maybe on paper that works out. It's hard to get a straight answer from anyone on this, because some senior AT guys are killing it while others are more straight time flyers. Since I hadn't bothered to figure it out I compared my last two most similar months at the two companies (12 year longevity, couple months senior to Ty ;)).

March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35

$ 710.17 monthly difference, everything straight time. If I converted my two 3 day trips to 4 day trips, resulting in 15 days off, I would take home more. This includes 11% 401k withholding, wife plus kid on medical and the standard mutual aid stuff. Because I no longer commute I gained about two full days off monthly back. Plus no more hotels. I'm not disputing anyone's math. I just want to give the folks who are transitioning some real numbers.
 
humveedriver said:
I'm not sure who is taking a 30k pay cut. Is that number based on comparing 15 year AT CA to 12 year SWA FO? Maybe on paper that works out. It's hard to get a straight answer from anyone on this, because some senior AT guys are killing it while others are more straight time flyers. Since I hadn't bothered to figure it out I compared my last two most similar months at the two companies (12 year longevity, couple months senior to Ty ;)).

March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35

$ 710.17 monthly difference, everything straight time. If I converted my two 3 day trips to 4 day trips, resulting in 15 days off, I would take home more. This includes 11% 401k withholding, wife plus kid on medical and the standard mutual aid stuff. Because I no longer commute I gained about two full days off monthly back. Plus no more hotels. I'm not disputing anyone's math. I just want to give the folks who are transitioning some real numbers.
Click to expand...

Therein seems to be the difference for many.

The exception to this will be the guys who live in a SWA base, and will no longer commute, and can pick up premium trips, but that is not the case for most of us.

My easy commute (1 hour) to a commutable line is going to change in the opposite direction- a two-leg commute to an uncommutable line.

Not bitching, but that's the reality of it.

Regds,
Ty
 
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I bet you get way more premium than I do commuting. The guys who average 150 TFP travel the system to get it (at our seniority). Won't Panama City to a HOU commute work for you (one leg, non stop). Look at the trips too, when you come over. Sometimes you can give a turn away and make uncommutable.. commutable.

As former DFW commuter, I know exactly what your facing. I made the necessary adjustments and made it work (different airlines, airports). I still look outside of my base for good opportunities.
 
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humveedriver said:
Won't Panama City to a HOU commute work for you (one leg, non stop).
Click to expand...

Nah . . . That's a 3+ hour drive to a 2 hour flight.

Most guys in the Panhandle are driving 3 hrs to MSY and then catching a 1 hour flight to HOU. Still pretty lousy way to start and end a trip.

Glad it's working out for you . . . . you DFW former-commuters deserve it, after what you went through.
 
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March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35


Take out the $400.00 health care/mo savings and its pretty much a wash...
 
Some of the former AT guys are having a hell of a time flying our -300s. Poor dudes.
 
madjack said:
March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35


Take out the $400.00 health care/mo savings and its pretty much a wash...
Click to expand...

Our health insurance is about the same cost as yours.... And it's better coverage.... And if you read his post again, he already factored that in... That's what "take-home pay" means.
 
SWA/FO said:
Some of the former AT guys are having a hell of a time flying our -300s. Poor dudes.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's a breeze compared to our DC9's, which had no FMS, no HSI, and no HUD. Throw in an MEL'd cabin pressurization controller, and you'd be begging for a 300. :D
 
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SWA/FO said:
Some of the former AT guys are having a hell of a time flying our -300s. Poor dudes.
Click to expand...

Do you REALLY want to trot out Pilot Flying skills?

Really? I ask... because it appears you have some Pilots that have had issues flying BOTH -300's and -700's.

I can certainly post links to 2 SWA accidents in which Pilot ERROR was specifically listed in the VERY FIRST sentence of the Probable Cause of BOTH accidents. I can also post links the a most recent accident of a -700 in which the aircraft landed NOSE FIRST after the CA took control at a very low altitude.

There but for the grace of god go I... and all of us. These accidents PROVE NOTHING about the flying skils of an entire Pilot group.... period. I bring it up to simply offset your comment about AirTran Pilots... regardless how you may try to "spin" what you posted. Believe me... we all know exactly what your intent was.

Seriously.... hands down..... SWA is an INCREDIBLY safe airline with very GOOD Pilots of all skillsets. By the same token.... the same can be said of AirTran Pilots.

AirTran has been a 100% glass cockpit carrier since 2002. For over 11 years most Pilots have been flying glass... and many have been flying left seat in a different airplane. Even with that said.... I am willing to BET that the learning curve between the AirTran Transition Pilots and ANY SWA new hire of similar transition is pretty close to the same metric.

As far as AirTran Pilots getting used to the -300 on the line, I absolutely would expect that to be the case. So.... why not just help them along in their first few months flying the -300.... and try to keep your ego in check rather than find yet "ANOTHER" something to rile all the AirTran haters and disparage the AirTran Pilots anonymously online.

Some of you people here need to have your medicals revoked for psychological issues. All of this name calling disparaging arguing and anonymous hatred is not "normal" emotional maturity....
 
Uh Malcom, the SWA guys are defending themselves, take Ty's BS response:

"Our health insurance is about the same cost as yours.... And it's better coverage.... And if you read his post again, he already factored that in... That's what "take-home pay" means."

http://forums.flightinfo.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2429914Of course the health insurance is better at AAI, everything is right? Hey a former FAT told me the monthly deductible was $400+ for Health Ins and at SWA it's half that...SWA folks on here are responding to the BS put out by the AAI mob...and it is true a 717 guy has to adjust to the 737 energy management
 

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