Massive Air Force reduction

[DaveGriffin]

True,
I love it when the Air Force spun the Indian Su fiasco as a reason for the F-22, just when there started to be questions about the need for a new fighter.

I think the AF got exactly the result they wanted with the match-up against the Su-30s. That was the plan, they needed a beating to justify the need for their new airplane. It was planned that way.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I know nothing about Predator B (and Predator C), but I hear that folks are expecting big things from them.
So, would I be "selling my soul" if I started working as a UAV operator???

How is it "selling your soul" if you get to participate in the development of new technology AND get to wax some bad guys at the same time while driving a UAV?

The buggy whip makers who moved on to auto parts sure didn't sell out. They just changed with the evolution of technology.

 

[SIG600]

How is it "selling your soul" if you get to participate in the development of new technology AND get to wax some bad guys at the same time while driving a UAV?

The buggy whip makers who moved on to auto parts sure didn't sell out. They just changed with the evolution of technology.

The car didn't eliminate the need for a driver...

 

[DaveGriffin]

The car didn't eliminate the need for a driver...

Neither does a UAV.....yet.

It is simply the location of the driver that has changed.

Technology always displaces jobs through increased efficiency. That's the way it's been since the industrial revolution. We will never be able to change that.

 

[JimNtexas]

I know nothing about Predator B (and Predator C), but I hear that folks are expecting big things from them.
So, would I be "selling my soul" if I started working as a UAV operator???

The Texas Air Guard is getting Predators at, of all places, Ellington. I'm sure it is going to be a lot of fun operating UAVs in and out of one of the most busy class 'B' areas in the world.

I'm sure the solution will be just to ban the bugsmashers once and for all.

The TANG is recruiting, if you need a UAV job.

 

[Vingus]

Been there, done that

Boy, we've been there and done that, haven't we.

For those of us around in the early 90's and were a witness to the RIFs (reduction in forces, the boring term before the new modern "force shaping") we know what is looming ahead. Do more with less, the "bathtub", and maybe they will introduce some new sort of TQM to keep us all confused while we struggle to make up the difference.

Problem is that the O-7/O-9s making these decisions now were the O-4s of the early 90s. They were above the ranks that were affected by the bathtub. They didn't have to fly a desk for 3-4 years due to being banked or stacked or worse yet, sit in the nav seat of a tanker cause they fired too many navs (remember that crap!?) And they didn't have to pick up the lion's share of flying that resulted from a lack of manpower cause they probably already had their cushy staff job/ops officer job.

So the pendulum swings, but this time, we are all worse off because of 9/11 and the reserves and guard are too full to absorb the soon to be let go pilots. At least back in 91/92, you could get a guard job, now the only thing hiring out there are the 135/130 units. And it looks like they will be reducing the size of those units as well just adding to the problem.

This may be my longest post on the stupid forum, but I speak from experience here, not just pulling stuff out of my A$$ like I usally do.

I guarantee that the Air Force will be crying for pilots in about 5 years. Mark my words.

 

[JimNtexas]

I think the AF got exactly the result they wanted with the match-up against the Su-30s. That was the plan, they needed a beating to justify the need for their new airplane. It was planned that way.

Exactly correct. They usually use the Israeli's for these propaganda demonstrations, using India was the only new twist to this old song.

 

[stonewall]

I think the AF got exactly the result they wanted with the match-up against the Su-30s. That was the plan, they needed a beating to justify the need for their new airplane. It was planned that way.

If you knew half as much as you think you know about USAF fighter ops, you'd be a freaking genius. You read all about Cope India in AV Week and think you know the whole story. I'm not going to waste my time responding to your uninformed posts anymore.

 

[DaveGriffin]

If you knew half as much as you think you know about USAF fighter ops, you'd be a freaking genius. You read all about Cope India in AV Week and think you know the whole story. I'm not going to waste my time responding to your uninformed posts anymore.

Magnum;

If you go outside your closed circle of zoomie, rah rah, fighter jock, AF cheerleaders, I believe you may find others of the same opinion as mine.

Including the opinion that AF CAS from the fighters ain't always as great as you seem to think it is. Things look much different from ground level than they do from 30,000 ft.

 

[Spyguy]

If you knew half as much as you think you know about USAF fighter ops, you'd be a freaking genius. You read all about Cope India in AV Week and think you know the whole story. I'm not going to waste my time responding to your uninformed posts anymore.

Well, Magnum, I have read ALL the reports, debriefs and videos and my previous statement still stands.

 

[Deuce130]

Magnum;

If you go outside your closed circle of zoomie, rah rah, fighter jock, AF cheerleaders, I believe you may find others of the same opinion as mine.

Including the opinion that AF CAS from the fighters ain't always as great as you seem to think it is. Things look much different from ground level than they do from 30,000 ft.

They're the ones who would know. You don't see fighter jocks reading some magazines and then telling the navy how NSWU-1 should be equipped or how to train the next generation of boat drivers. I've spent some time around operators, does that mean I'm qualified to have an opinon on them? Don't think so. Just 'cause you watched Wings one night doesn't make you an expert on combat aviation. Besides, no is going to argue that AC-130's make great CAS platforms. That's why the AF is building more. With that said, who's going to provide CAS in a high threat environment? Not the gunship. And even the A-10 is a stretch in a high threat environment. The F-16 is your best bet. Anyone can have an opinion, but somehow you seem to think yours is backed up by all this "evidence" that simply isn't true. And anyone who knows anything about military officers knows that noone would get sent to India to take a dive against foreign fighter pilots. What an insult. Stick to what you know.

 

[Deuce130]

Exactly correct. They usually use the Israeli's for these propaganda demonstrations, using India was the only new twist to this old song.

The F-22 was in full blown development long before this fantastical Cope India exercise that everyone seems to think was so important. Take off the aluminum foil hat and watch out for the black helicopters....

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

The lesson's learned with A-10s scud-hunting in the first Gulf War perfectly illustrates Duece130's point.

 

[stonewall]

Well, Magnum, I have read ALL the reports, debriefs and videos and my previous statement still stands.

Well, spyguy, You didn't say the same thing as the other dude. You said we spun the "fiasco" as a reason to buy the F-22. That's not the same thing as organizing an intentional "beatdown" by the Indians.

If you've seen everything as you claim and know anything about red v blue taining exercises, then I shouldn't have to tell you why that exercise turned out the way it did. Enough about that.

 

[stonewall]

Magnum;

If you go outside your closed circle of zoomie, rah rah, fighter jock, AF cheerleaders, I believe you may find others of the same opinion as mine.

Including the opinion that AF CAS from the fighters ain't always as great as you seem to think it is. Things look much different from ground level than they do from 30,000 ft.

Look, Potsy, engage your brain before you type. Nobody said CAS has been perfected...if it was we wouldn't spend so much time trying to make it better. I like diversity of opinion...that's how we get better. However, I don't have any use for uninformed opinion. You can blast the AF "Cheerleaders," but the truth is you've never been inside the circle or even remotely close to it. You don't know what our current capes are and you don't know how AF and Navy fighters are currently doing CAS.

But, by all means, keep posting. Maybe in 2020 I'll get on here and post about how much better tactics were back in '06, and how today's "closed circle, zoomie, space-geek UAV and satellite rah rah cheerleaders" need to bring back the F-16!

 

[stonewall]

Further, the F-16 doesn't do CAS from 30,000'. It's more like 15-25. And you'd be surprised what things look like through a Sniper Pod, day or night. Of course, you don't know anything abou that....

 

[JFReservist]

Um... who's gonna give the gas?

The argument over all of those F-series jets is really entertaining and all, but the 135 turns 50 this year (granted, all of the '56 models are adorning sticks somewhere). Nowhere in any of the articles that I've read is a new tanker platform mentioned. Boeing recently announced that it is considering shutting down the 76 line unless the Air Force figures out what they want to do.

 

[JFReservist]

I'm all for a stealth tanker, or whatever the guys smarter than me wanna build... just make sure they don't stealth my hot-cup, oven and other ammenities... man's got eat. Oh, and a microwave and fridge might be nice - those pizzas take a while to cook and I'm getting tired of forgettin my cooler on those pac runs.

 

[Laxman]

Magnum and Deuce130 - Shack

DGriffin - no kidding, things look a lot different from 20k then it does on the ground. When you say bomb the hill, which hill? I see a thousand hills. Or my favorite where I am now...the blue roof building

And to the rest of you who think you know everything about fighter ops and have not lived it in the last few years, you have no idea but you opinions are just that. Opinion.

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

What happened at Cope India that made such an impact on the AF?

-LA