Markets hot for 50 seaters.

[B727FA]

IMO, you can't go wrong by adding more power.

Is that anything like getting more cowbell?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Is that anything like getting more cowbell?

One and the same, my friend:laugh:

 

[BLing]

I recently read about one of these conversion companies whose program offered engine "upgrades"

It didn't get into specifics about what the upgrades were, but based off the performance stories that have been told about the CRJ's climb performance, one would take it to mean bigger engines.

IMO, you can't go wrong by adding more power.

What Ive been told from guys who have flown these 850s is that its a computer mod. Basically they bump up the N1 a few percent for takeoff and climb. The justification is that these things wont be flying 10 legs a day like a typical CRJ. So they will be able to handle the abuse over a long period of time due to fewer cylces.

 

[time builder]

The corporate thing I can see. The cargo thing, you're either joking or out of touch with reality (at least in the US markets).

 

[Salukipilot4590]

The corporate thing I can see. The cargo thing, you're either joking or out of touch with reality (at least in the US markets).

There's a cargo outfit flying a modified -200....in Europe of course though...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/West-Air-Europe/Canadair-CL-600-2B19-Regional/1231507/L/

It's always a possibility!!

 

[time builder]

There's a cargo outfit flying a modified -200....in Europe of course though...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/West-Air-Europe/Canadair-CL-600-2B19-Regional/1231507/L/

It's always a possibility!!

Just very slim in the US.

Seriously, you've got cargo "gateways" scattered all over the place in the US, even in places such as Casper, WY and Sioux Falls, SD. Outstations are rarely over an hour and a half away in a turboprop, and even a Cessna Caravan is competitive with it's low speed. The fact is that turboprops get the job done at less cost (less fuel, mx under part 135 etc.)

With the heavies flying into the gateways, and everything getting to the outstations in time to make the early a.m. deliveries with turboprops the job is getting done at a lower cost than if you tried entering RJ's into the equation. It's not like your customers are going to "sneer" at the fact that their package had to fly on an old beat up turboprop (like passengers do).

Additionally, everything is being consolidated in the cargo world, further supporting the heavy jet gateway network. ABX used to do well with their DC9's, for example. Now after being consolidated with DHL, and then having DHL decide to ship things on UPS instead, the DC9's are on the chopping block, and the DC8's are being pulled out of the desert for UPS. You'd think "whoa, DC8's are gas guzzlers if there ever were any," but the bottom line is that through consolidation, it's more cost efficient to send one DC8 than two 727's and a DC9.

If even a DC9 can't survive, what makes you think there's a market for a CRJ?

Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, well, those are entirely different networks, who knows what a CRJ could do there.

 

[ex j-41]

Do you people actually do the math yourselves or just pass words? Most flights i do in a CRJ say for an hour block i burn 3500 pounds. Or 522 gallons. Even at $4/gallon that is only say around $2000 in gas.
Share that between 50 pax and you got each person paying $40 for gas. And that is at $4/gallon and i donm't think the airlines are paying that.
Now look at a DC-9. You will find the same flight will cost around $52/pax.
The CRJ is not as inefficient as you may think.

And look at the ERJ 170 (Regional Jet). It burns 30% more fuel than the CRJ 700. Same engines. Just a lot more drag. Air Canada is very dissapointed with the efficiencies of this jet. The 190 burns the same fuel but carries 20% more. (Depending on first class set up).
Anyway the airplanes that need to go away are the ERJ 170/175's.

 

[time builder]

Sorry for the late response, but I gotta respond anyway.

First off, when did we start talking about 70 seat RJ's? We're talking about 50 seaters and cargo. The only reason the 50 seaters are even in consideration for cargo is because the demand for them just drastically dropped.

In the cargo world, low cost of aquistion can compensate for higher operating costs because aircraft fly less legs/hours. How do you think the 727 has lasted so long?

Second, who said that DC9's were being chopped for inefficiency? The fact of the matter is that through consolidation FedEx and UPS can stick with larger aircraft (727 and larger).

Third, I gotta call BS on the "30%" figure.

 

[wahoo250]

whats the range on one of these things...

 

[BoilerUP]

whats the range on one of these things...

FTFA:

Peterborough, Ontario-based Flying Colours is a preferred completions provider for Bombardier and has developed an “ExecLiner” CRJ modification package that includes an STC for additional fuel tanks that can give the aircraft 3,000 nm range.

 

[Max Powers]

Funny how the corporate world that transport a few people per aircraft to their destination for a bout 5-7 thousand dollars is doing gang busters and the airline world which can transport you there for 300 hundred dollars is falling like a rock.

Yep this is a sure reason to keep voting republican. GO MCAIN GO lets lower taxes more on the rich so they can by bigger jets and the rest of us have to deal with a 9 trillion dollar debt.

 

[BoilerUP]

Funny how the corporate world that transport a few people per aircraft to their destination for a bout 5-7 thousand dollars is doing gang busters and the airline world which can transport you there for 300 hundred dollars is falling like a rock.

I won't address the political side of your post...this first part is asinine enough.

Most bizjet operators are not private individuals, they are corporations. Corporations that do business, and provide jobs and tax revenue to support the economies of the cities they are based and do business in.

For my company, half the cities we fly to for active or future job sites don't have airline service. Those that do take 5-8 hours to get from our home airport to the destination airport, plus the time spent driving between home and the departure airport, and the arrival airport and the job site. That kind of makes conducting same-day business or multiple meetings in multiple cities impossible. Operating a business aircraft isn't cheap, but it buys the one thing in business that truly is priceless - TIME.

Think outside the stereotypical "OMFG rich people are teh evils!!!1!eleventy" box as to what business aviation really does...

Besides...most of these CRJ-200 conversions aren't going to be flown in North America...they're destined for Europe, Russia, and the Middle East.

 

[BoilerUP]

double post...

 

[Max Powers]

I won't address the political side of your post...this first part is asinine enough.

Most bizjet operators are not private individuals, they are corporations. Corporations that do business, and provide jobs and tax revenue to support the economies of the cities they are based and do business in. Hate to break it to you but if you make over 500k dollars you pay an average of 4-8 percent taxes in the good old USA. If you make per capita or between 40-90k then your average tax pay out is between 14-22 percent. Depends on how many write offs you got. A 10 million dollar jet is a real nice write off - for business use of course!

For my company, half the cities we fly to for active or future job sites don't have airline service. Those that do take 5-8 hours to get from our home airport to the destination airport, plus the time spent driving between home and the departure airport, and the arrival airport and the job site. That kind of makes conducting same-day business or multiple meetings in multiple cities impossible. Operating a business aircraft isn't cheap, but it buys the one thing in business that truly is priceless - TIME. BLah blah blah for a dumb a$$ blue collar working pilot you sure talk like your some commentator on CNBC..... The Warren Buffets/Bill Gates of the world deserve a corporate jet but the CEO of some tiny little company with a market cap of less than a billion should ride the airlines.

Think outside the stereotypical "OMFG rich people are teh evils!!!1!eleventy" box as to what business aviation really does...In the 1960s the average CEO made about 20 times what their average company pay was. Today that same CEO makes about 700 times more.

Besides...most of these CRJ-200 conversions aren't going to be flown in North America...they're destined for Europe, Russia, and the Middle East. Actually the majority are going to the USA if you look at simply the numbers.

Boiler up always a fool. Look my friend all I'm trying to say is that inequality is good but we need to have some balance and fairness in this world. The pendulum needs to swing the other way!!!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

BLah blah blah for a dumb a$$ blue collar working pilot you sure talk like your some commentator on CNBC..... The Warren Buffets/Bill Gates of the world deserve a corporate jet but the CEO of some tiny little company with a market cap of less than a billion should ride the airlines.

This "dumb ass blue collar working pilot" has a flying job thanks to the founder and president of "some tiny little company with a market cap of less than a billion" who is DONE riding the airlines because they waste his time...time that could be spent seeking clients and growing his business. That growth requires him to hire more highly educated, highly skilled, highly compensated workers to meet demand...and yeah, also puts more $$$ into his pockets. Since I and the 74 other company employees pay our mortgages by the owner working seven days and 90 hours a week to obtain new business, I could care less about his beach side vacation home or the kind of car he drives.

If you want to rail against a Fortune 500 CEO that makes eight figures while his/her company is bleeding red ink and laying employees off, I completely understand.

If you want to bag on a small business owner who has invested his life into his company and buys a light jet so he gets 5 more nights at home with his wife and kids every month...then yeah, I have a problem with that kind of myopic thinking.

 

[Max Powers]

This "dumb ass blue collar working pilot" has a flying job thanks to the founder and president of "some tiny little company with a market cap of less than a billion" who is DONE riding the airlines because they waste his time...time that could be spent seeking clients and growing his business. That growth requires him to hire more highly educated, highly skilled, highly compensated workers to meet demand...and yeah, also puts more $$$ into his pockets. Since I and the 74 other company employees pay our mortgages by the owner working seven days and 90 hours a week to obtain new business, I could care less about his beach side vacation home or the kind of car he drives.

If you want to rail against a Fortune 500 CEO that makes eight figures while his/her company is bleeding red ink and laying employees off, I completely understand.

If you want to bag on a small business owner who has invested his life into his company and buys a light jet so he gets 5 more nights at home with his wife and kids every month...then yeah, I have a problem with that kind of myopic thinking.

So this schmuck has 74 total employees and he has a corporate jet along with the required flight department????? Please tell me you fly around in a small piston and not some turbine powered aircraft!!!!! You made my case for me a piss ant little company like that should not have the resources to fly around so nicely on a wasteful corporate jet. Your boss should be on my 737 back in row 33 or even better if he is successful he can sit up in first and hang out with the poor ugly flight attendants.

Sound fair boiler boy?

 

[BoilerUP]

Sound fair boiler boy?

Your troll-fu was weak before, but strong now it is...

 

[Hobit]

Max Powers....one more for the ignore list.

This message is hidden because Max Powers is on your ignore list.

 

[Draginass]

Add to that, a plethora of qualified pilots and knowledgable mechanics to keep operating cost down. It might be a good opportunity for many CRJ regional pilots who are fed up with the airlines to break into a good quality biz-jet job. It is also nice to have an airframe with millions of flight hours of experience so there are less “new aircraft” operational bugs to work out.

Nice. Now they can start dumbing down the compensation of the business pilot profession.

 

[freighthumper]

My employer looked at the numbers for this converted CRJ P.O.S. very briefly, 3000nm definately isnt with much payload, and even then it isnt a NY-LA airplane 100% of the time. Service ceiling sucks too.

The pay wont be that much more than an RJ pilot with the glut of RJ pilots willing to do it for less than the other guy. Just look at BBJ Salaries compared to GV salaries, all the airline guys willing to do it for next to nothing drive the average wage down.

The idea is good, but its pretty much a white elephant.