Marine vs. 4 armed robbers

[EMBATP]

the deadliest weapon in the world is a marine and his rifle....



or in this case, his bare hands...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This story reminds me of the movie ConAir, where Nicholas Cage is only defending himself and winds up going to prision because he killed the attackers only in self defense.
I'm just glad the Marine wasn't charged or convicted of a crime.

WOW.... comparing real life to Hollywood. Is this how we measure ourselves? With contrasts from Tinsletown?

These attackers were teenagers. For whatever reason they made bad choices and paid the price.

But lets keep it in perspective... they are civilians! Not organized trained military.

Many teenagers get caught up with the wrong crowd or make bad judgement calls and are lucky enough (unlike these kids) not to have to face the consequenses.... and when you are growing up...that is OK!

Hey- if these were terrorist that would be one thing... but American teenagers..... give yourselves a break......

If you embrace the Law of the Jungle...fine... but there is always someone who is better, stonger, faster and deadlier than you..... And you can't always control who comes after you....

 

[Midnight Flyer]

WOW.... comparing real life to Hollywood. Is this how we measure ourselves? With contrasts from Tinsletown?

These attackers were teenagers. For whatever reason they made bad choices and paid the price.

But lets keep it in perspective... they are civilians! Not organized trained military.

Many teenagers get caught up with the wrong crowd or make bad judgement calls and are lucky enough (unlike these kids) not to have to face the consequenses.... and when you are growing up...that is OK!

Hey- if these were terrorist that would be one thing... but American teenagers..... give yourselves a break......

If you embrace the Law of the Jungle...fine... but there is always someone who is better, stonger, faster and deadlier than you..... And you can't always control who comes after you....

First off, I only said that this situation reminded me of that movie, that's all.

Secondly, based on your comments, people like you contribute to why kids nowadays have no accountability and have the mindframe that they do not need to take responsibility for their actions.

Civilians vs. trained military? So what are you suggesting? That the victim should have faught back "half a$$" because he knew he was a trained fighter and his victims were teenagers? Whatever. You need to wake up and look around you. Some of the gangs and streetpunks are carrying automatic weapons and using vest penetrating ammo. But ooo, they're civilians; let's be easy on them.
If street punks thought that their victims actually had the ability to fight back, street crime would definately decrease. Trust me, muggers want the least amount of conflict.

If a person is able to do the crime, they should do the time; regardless.
Let me guess, you support Judge Kristine Cecava's decision to keep that 5ft child molestor out of prision because he was too short.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

First off, I only said that this situation reminded me of that movie, that's all. .

And I am saying that you compare reality with Hollywood..... that's all.

Secondly, based on your comments, people like you contribute to why kids nowadays have no accountability and have the mindframe that they do not need to take responsibility for their actions. .

You don't know me or my kids. And you are reading this all wrong. I didn't say the actions of the Marine were NOT justified. What I am saying is the message board responses are misaligned.

Cheering on a dead teenage girl is not cool.

Civilians vs. trained military? So what are you suggesting? That the victim should have faught back "half a$$" because he knew he was a trained fighter and his victims were teenagers? Whatever. You need to wake up and look around you. Some of the gangs and streetpunks are carrying automatic weapons and using vest penetrating ammo. But ooo, they're civilians; let's be easy on them.
If street punks thought that their victims actually had the ability to fight back, street crime would definately decrease. Trust me, muggers want the least amount of conflict. .

No, what I am suggesting is that you not feel so validated and glorious over a killing.

Look at it this way... what if the Marine just handed his wallet over? Then a girl doesn't die. I am not second guessing the Marine actions or choices cause I wan't there, but is a life worth a wallet? I don't think so... You?

If a person is able to do the crime, they should do the time; regardless.
Let me guess, you support Judge Kristine Cecava's decision to keep that 5ft child molestor out of prision because he was too short.

Let me guess.... you are a product of your environement. A respondant..

If some one yells at you, you yell back.

If someone treats you bad, you respond in kind....

If someone kills a teenage girl who commits a robbery, you cheer the victor...

 

[D'Angelo]

A life isnt worth a wallet, thats why you dont try to rob someone for one. You never know who your dealing with.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

And I am saying that you compare reality with Hollywood..... that's all.



You don't know me or my kids. And you are reading this all wrong. I didn't say the actions of the Marine were NOT justified. What I am saying is the message board responses are misaligned.

Cheering on a dead teenage girl is not cool.



No, what I am suggesting is that you not feel so validated and glorious over a killing.

Look at it this way... what if the Marine just handed his wallet over? Then a girl doesn't die. I am not second guessing the Marine actions or choices cause I wan't there, but is a life worth a wallet? I don't think so... You?



Let me guess.... you are a product of your environement. A respondant..

If some one yells at you, you yell back.

If someone treats you bad, you respond in kind....

If someone kills a teenage girl who commits a robbery, you cheer the victor...

Is a wallet worth a life? No, of course not. But as a human being, the attackee has a right, and even a duty to defend himself and not become a victim. Even though this girl probably didn't wake up that morning thinking she'd wind up getting killed, I'm willing to bet at some point, she had to have realized that when you attack another person, you put your own life on the line, and that was a risk she was willing to take.
You're looking at it from the simple standpoint of a wallet vs. a life. When you put it like that, well yeah, it's a no-brainer..hand over the wallet and everybody goes home safe.
But neither of us was there and we don't know 100% what happened, but I'm willing to bet the Marine was attacked first and then they tried to take the wallet from him. Street punks are mean people who not only get off on mugging people, but harming people just for the sake of harming them. At that point, he was defending himself, NOT trying to keep his wallet.

I can't speak for the other people reading this thread, but I personally am not glorious over a killing, no matter who it is but I will not hesitate to protect myself, family or an innocent person by using deadly force as a last resort, even if the attacker is a 16 year old girl.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Is a wallet worth a life? No, of course not.

I think we agree on more than not....

But as a human being, the attackee has a right, and even a duty to defend himself and not become a victim. .

More agreement...

Even though this girl probably didn't wake up that morning thinking she'd wind up getting killed, I'm willing to bet at some point, she had to have realized that when you attack another person, you put your own life on the line, and that was a risk she was willing to take..

Well, on this, I offer that she may have been too far over her head. She never realized the true consequences of her actions... this can happen if you are plagued with youth or immaturity...

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Well, on this, I offer that she may have been too far over her head. She never realized the true consequences of her actions... this can happen if you are plagued with youth or immaturity...

I hear you, but I still disagree on this part. What I'm getting out of what you're saying is that you're suggesting it's basically the immature shenanigans of typical youth, or just "kids being kids".
I'm not trying to disrespect your opinion or anything. I have a background in law enforcement, maybe that's why I have the opinion that I do regarding the whole thing. Part of the reason I got out was the fact that the law is flawed. I got tired of the "catch and release" way of doing things. (plus I missed flying )

Time and time again I've seen underage preditors hide behind the law with the belief that because they're minors, they'll either get off, get a lesser punishment, not be held to a contract, or whatever.

Do I want to see a young girl die? Heck No! But under the circumstance, this girl and her gang are predators and criminals. They have more than likely been getting away with this for a while. Finially it's caught up to them. I will loose no sleep over this one.

 

[LAZYB]

Rez

In Rez, one's character soars over psychedelic, abstract, futuristic vistas to the hypnotic beats of trance music. Wikipedia

Life, and choices, have consequences.

Bad choices, bad consequences.

Who should suffer the bad consequences? The one making a bad choice or a random individual?

How much should the random individual be willing to suffer and or sacrifice, to "protect" the doer of wrong from the consequences of his ignorance?

Maybe you need to move somewhere where the "state" can protect you, feed you, and nurture your "unique"/sameness along with the collective masses.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez
How much should the random individual be willing to suffer and or sacrifice, to "protect" the doer of wrong from the consequences of his ignorance?.

Still reading what you want? Got the LazyB glasses on so you can see the world the correct way.....

I never said the "kids" in this shouldn't have to face the consequneces of thier actions... alot of jail time is the right result....

I am saying consider how to respond to this event. I not sure a bunch of high fives and Marine Corp ughh-rahhs are the right way to go...

However, if the dead girl in this case was your sister, cousin, daughter, then you'd stand over her grave and say.... serves her right.....


You can advocate the Law of the Jungle all you want, but sooner or later someone will get you, cause there is no way you are the King of the Jungle...

 

[Midnight Flyer]

You can advocate the Law of the Jungle all you want, but sooner or later someone will get you, cause there is no way you are the King of the Jungle...

That's a flawed way of thinking. You're making it sound like the marine is going around using his military training to kill people, and that he had better "watch out because sooner or later someone bigger and badder is going to get him". Whatever. The guy was mugged by armed criminals. Law of the Jungle or whatever you choose to call it, the guy was justified in what he did.

Yes, if the girl happened to be a relative of mine, I would have no choice but to stand over her grave and say something to the effect of "I told you so". But that would not mean that I wouldn't grieve her death.

Now, on another note. I would be 100% in agreement with you if this was a case of some nutjob going around on some killing spree using his military skills as a weapon to kill people. Then, you would be right. Eventually somebody bigger and badder would come along and dethrone him from being king of the jungle.
But that simply isn't the case regarding what happened.

 

[LAZYB]

I never said the "kids" in this shouldn't have to face the consequneces of thier actions... alot of jail time is the right result....
BUT you would like to determine and guide the consequences, and the degree of defense that one could use to protect themselves. Never mind "unintended consequences". Kind of like a game or competition... Let's see if they come back and try to run me over or kill me. A nice measured response.

I am saying consider how to respond to this event. I not sure a bunch of high fives and Marine Corp ughh-rahhs are the right way to go... No, one shouldn't be happy that good overcomes bad. Nah, one shouldn't be pleased that right overcomes might. One should be compliant. Forgiving. Obediant.

However, if the dead girl in this case was your sister, cousin, daughter, then you'd stand over her grave and say.... serves her right.....Not pleasant, but a case of "what did you expect" and sorefully "got what she deserved".


You can advocate the Law of the Jungle <-- (you don't get it do you Rez? That's why we have laws. A primary one, the right to protect one's self,) all you want, but sooner or later someone will get you, cause there is no way you are the King of the Jungle...(And why would someone "need" to "get" me? I obey the laws. The one's I don't (driving) I'm not beligerant about or surprised when I have to pay the "price". I don't harass, provoke, or threaten others. I actually put up with a lot of ********************. Again

"When you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has struck before you crush him. " -- former President Franklin D Roosevelt

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That's a flawed way of thinking. You're making it sound like the marine is going around using his military training to kill people, and that he had better "watch out because sooner or later someone bigger and badder is going to get him". Whatever. The guy was mugged by armed criminals. Law of the Jungle or whatever you choose to call it, the guy was justified in what he did.

Yes, if the girl happened to be a relative of mine, I would have no choice but to stand over her grave and say something to the effect of "I told you so". But that would not mean that I wouldn't grieve her death.

Now, on another note. I would be 100% in agreement with you if this was a case of some nutjob going around on some killing spree using his military skills as a weapon to kill people. Then, you would be right. Eventually somebody bigger and badder would come along and dethrone him from being king of the jungle.
But that simply isn't the case regarding what happened.

We are coming from different perspectives.

But lets make it clear: I am in agreement with the Marines actions. In fact I am all about shock and awe and over whelming force. When the time is right, I bring a gun to a knife fight. (no pun intended, the Marine had a knife and the "kids" had guns")

But that doesn't mean I don't have compassion or empathy for my enemy.

Get it?

I can still beat the crap out of someone and still have an understanding of who they are and why they did what I did. I don't have to agree with them but I can understand them...

Too many people think compassion, understanding and empathy are a weakness.

If we don't have compassion for this girl and her life and what brought her to the point of armed robbery then we can become just as bad.....

But that would not mean that I wouldn't grieve her death.

You aren't being (just a little) compassionate are you? :beer:

 

[navigator72]

he should have killed them all

I think the Marine did an amazing job. If he hadn't taken care of the situation, he probably would be dead right now. These punks knew what they were doing..... They took a chance and they lost.
Is it sad that a teenager was killed, not really.
It's all about the choices you make in life..... You need to take responsibilty for your actions.
If I was a punk and went to rob someone and they kicked my ass... I would deserve my ass kicking.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

We are coming from different perspectives.

But lets make it clear: I am in agreement with the Marines actions. In fact I am all about shock and awe and over whelming force. When the time is right, I bring a gun to a knife fight. (no pun intended, the Marine had a knife and the "kids" had guns")

But that doesn't mean I don't have compassion or empathy for my enemy.

Get it?

I can still beat the crap out of someone and still have an understanding of who they are and why they did what I did. I don't have to agree with them but I can understand them...

Too many people think compassion and empathy are a weakness.

If we don't have compassion for this girl and her life and what brought her to the point of armed robbery then we can become just as bad.....



You aren't being (just a little) compassionate are you? :beer:

Yes, I feel crummy everytime I hear that somebody has died. But it's all relative. How did you feel when it came out that Jeffrey Dahmer was beat to death in prision. In interviews, he appeared as a softspoken, gentle-like, "nice" guy, dispite his horrible crimes. But after everything came out as to what he did, then yeah, in a way I was happy he was beat to death. Served him right. I don't know if that's a healthy belief (to be happy that somebody has died), but I felt happy for the victims' families when he died, in a "justice has been served" type of way. In his case, the punishment fit the crime.

In the girl's case, did the punishment (her death) fit the crime? IMO, that depends. As I said earlier, we both weren't there, so nobody really knows the sequence of events.
For instance, lets say she asked for his wallet first without assulting him. Then the Marine whips out a knife and stabbs her. Well, I think that is a high price for her to pay, because his life was not in danger at that point.
On the other hand, if she ran up to him with a gun pointed at his head demanding money and putting his life in immediate danger, then he was 100% justified in using his deadly force. I realize we don't disagree on his use of force in this case.

I understand that some people are compassionate and feel empathy toward everybody. But look at the case of the 5 foot child molestor that got off (no pun intended). The judge and all the other liberals had compassion for him (because the little bugger might get taken advantage of in prision). How do you think the victim felt when he was molesting her? Pound for pound, she was probably as small compared to him as he would be compared to an average sized male inmate. So how is that fair that he has the sympathetic judge protecting him, but the poor girl was molested, and her molester remains free. That's adding insult to injury.

Sorry to go off on these tangents, but just wanted to use some examples to illustrate my point.