Many Midwest flights aren't Midwest at all

[MusicMan]

sometimes masses in numbers need to take drastic action in drastic circumstances. what are they gonna do, fire the whole republic pilot corps?

They won't need to fire you while you're in jail. You'd have to check the Republic contract to see what it says about being in jail an keeping your job. I suspect it wouldn't be good news either way.

 

[flylike44]

There's no such thing as an ERJ-190. It's an EMB-190.



You also got some of the worst anti-labor case law in the history of the RLA that has hindered airline labor ever since and led to judgments like the recent UAL injunction.



ALPA lawyers got the language that the MEA MEC wanted. The lawyers are the foot-soldiers, not the generals. They don't get to make the decisions, they only get to do the work to accomplish the objectives that the MEC sets. When an MEC doesn't make scope a top priority, it's not the lawyer's fault.

the voice of reason.

 

[CitationLover]

There's no such thing as an ERJ-190. It's an EMB-190.



You also got some of the worst anti-labor case law in the history of the RLA that has hindered airline labor ever since and led to judgments like the recent UAL injunction.



ALPA lawyers got the language that the MEA MEC wanted. The lawyers are the foot-soldiers, not the generals. They don't get to make the decisions, they only get to do the work to accomplish the objectives that the MEC sets. When an MEC doesn't make scope a top priority, it's not the lawyer's fault.

That's even better. The blind leading the "experts". What a great setup. Do the Herndon geniuses think that one up with their fat cat expenses and half million dollar salaries?

Doesn't change the fact that our scope clause was boilerplate ALPA national from the late 90's.

 

[jravi8tor]

When is our do*che bag of a CEO retiring? The end of this month or in July, or has it yet to be announced?

 

[CitationLover]

When is our do*che bag of a CEO retiring? The end of this month or in July, or has it yet to be announced?

Hypothetical:

If TPG = Tony Soprano, would TH = the gay capo who ran away to New England only to be brought back and wacked?

 

[SizzleChest]

Interesting. Everything on the Embraer website says either "Embraer 170" or "EMB-170."

Wake up and go to sleep......

http://www.opspecs.com/AFSData/FSBRs/Final/ERJ-170-190 FSB 7Dec.doc

 

[PCL_128]

That's even better. The blind leading the "experts". What a great setup. Do the Herndon geniuses think that one up with their fat cat expenses and half million dollar salaries?

Pure ignorance. No one is making anything close a half million dollars, and no one is enjoying "fat cat expenses."

If you want pilots being ordered around by lawyers, then go enjoy the IBT. That's how their organization is run. But keep in mind that the nimrod that you guys had on your NC that negotiated your horrible scope language is one of their business managers, now.

Doesn't change the fact that our scope clause was boilerplate ALPA national from the late 90's.

Not sure where you heard that, but that's absolutely false. No other mainline carrier had anything slightly resembling that scope language.

 

[CitationLover]

Pure ignorance. No one is making anything close a half million dollars, and no one is enjoying "fat cat expenses."

If you want pilots being ordered around by lawyers, then go enjoy the IBT. That's how their organization is run. But keep in mind that the nimrod that you guys had on your NC that negotiated your horrible scope language is one of their business managers, now.

Duane Woerth made $500k, I am sure Prater is making that. I will guarantee you my former rep at American Eagle is making more then he would have made online. The Senior directors all made $350K+ during Woerth's tenure. Keep your head in the sand, our 1.95% generally allows them to have their cocktail parties and expense accounts.

And that "nimrod" was beloved by ALPA National go figure. When he sent his "six letters" out two winters ago we all knew he'd lost his mind. You're absolutely right though, he's the IBT's problem now. One can only hope he screws Republic over.

Not sure where you heard that, but that's absolutely false. No other mainline carrier had anything slightly resembling that scope language.

United had little scope. US Airways very little. And again this was our first contract, lawyers had to take the lead on a lot of things as we had little clue what we were doing.

I realize you have a chubby being back in ALPA and all, and costing us immediately $5m.

 

[PCL_128]

Duane Woerth made $500k, I am sure Prater is making that.

Neither of them has ever made that much money. Not even close.

I will guarantee you my former rep at American Eagle is making more then he would have made online.

Most reps just fly the line, so no, they don't. If you're referring to the MEC Chairman, he's probably a full-time rep, and he makes whatever your MEC sets as his pay, but National keeps an eye on it and limits it to a reasonable amount. Many MEC Officers actually take a pay cut to serve as Officers.

Keep your head in the sand, our 1.95% generally allows them to have their cocktail parties and expense accounts.

You really don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

United had little scope. US Airways very little.

All incorrect. USAirways had the strongest scope in the country until post-9/11 bankruptcy. There was a system-wide maximum of only 50 outsourced jets, and they were limited to 50 seats. UAL also had strict controls in place.

I realize you have a chubby being back in ALPA and all, and costing us immediately $5m.

We haven't cost you a dime. That $5 million will probably never be touched. We have $3 million of our own money that we brought with us that we have to use before getting to the MCF grant. Perhaps you should read the Admin Manual and learn how this stuff works before getting all worked up.

 

[CitationLover]

Neither of them has ever made that much money. Not even close.

Not even close?

Top 10 International ALPA Leaders & Staff (by Salary) Name Title Total Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 550,729
Jalmer Johnson Geneal Manager $ 380,771
Jonatha Cohen Chief Counsel, D $ 370,957
Bruce York Director Represe $ 354,472
Spyrido Skiados Director, Commun $ 305,777
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Financ $ 297,681
Paul Hallisay Director Govern $ 293,753
Kenneth Cooper Asst Dir Represe $ 288,835
James Johnson Managing Attorne $ 285,249
William Roberts Asst Dir Represe $ 283,820

.... and Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, who got a salary of $412,000, along with a $130,000 "allowance."....

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/brenner020207.html

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092605/posts

etc etc etc

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not even going to bother explaining for the thousandth time how the DOL and IRS calculate union compensation. Suffice it to say that those numbers are nothing close to what those individuals actually got on a pay check.

 

[CitationLover]

I'm not even going to bother explaining for the thousandth time how the DOL and IRS calculate union compensation. Suffice it to say that those numbers are nothing close to what those individuals actually got on a pay check.

You know, Tim Hoeksema says those same things......

Try me. I'm betting I understand IRS compensation regulations more than you think..........

 

[PCL_128]

You know, Tim Hoeksema says those same things......

Try me. I'm betting I understand IRS compensation regulations more than you think..........

Do a search. Rez and I have explained it over and over again. Or simply go do some research on DOL Labor-Management Reporting provisions.

 

[WayBack]

Not even close?

Top 10 International ALPA Leaders & Staff (by Salary) Name Title Total Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 550,729
Jalmer Johnson Geneal Manager $ 380,771
Jonatha Cohen Chief Counsel, D $ 370,957
Bruce York Director Represe $ 354,472
Spyrido Skiados Director, Commun $ 305,777
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Financ $ 297,681
Paul Hallisay Director Govern $ 293,753
Kenneth Cooper Asst Dir Represe $ 288,835
James Johnson Managing Attorne $ 285,249
William Roberts Asst Dir Represe $ 283,820



http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/brenner020207.html

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092605/posts

etc etc etc

Please do not use facts, it only baffles the mumbling droolers, who suck on the ALPO teet

 

[Axel]

I find it interesting that on the one hand the RAH pilots are bashed for failing to read in detail and consider the potential effect six years down the line of the contract they signed in 2003, yet on the other hand there is mention that the lawyers, not the pilots, are responsible for the lack of protections in the Midwest contract.

 

[CitationLover]

I find it interesting that on the one hand the RAH pilots are bashed for failing to read in detail and consider the potential effect six years down the line of the contract they signed in 2003, yet on the other hand there is mention that the lawyers, not the pilots, are responsible for the lack of protections in the Midwest contract.

there were protections built in, management is getting away with calling outsourcing a "code-share", when we all know it isn't one. an arbitrator ruled in favor of them.

 

[Axel]

Now I get it:

The Midwest guys listened to their lawyer(s) and ratified the contract that an arbitrator later interpreted to mean the "code share" is legal, costing them their jobs.

OTOH, the RAH pilots each failed as individuals to read each and every word in the TA prior to ratification and failed to recognize that six years later this might happen and an arbitrator would consider it to be legal. Then the rest of the industry says the RAH pilots are scabs because they don't get themselves fired for engaging in an illegal job action, even though the Midwest pilots didn't either.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[CitationLover]

Now I get it:

The Midwest guys listened to their lawyer(s) and ratified the contract that an arbitrator later interpreted to mean the "code share" is legal, costing them their jobs.

OTOH, the RAH pilots each failed as individuals to read each and every word in the TA prior to ratification and failed to recognize that six years later this might happen and an arbitrator would consider it to be legal. Then the rest of the industry says the RAH pilots are scabs because they don't get themselves fired for engaging in an illegal job action, even though the Midwest pilots didn't either.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Pick your pay rates/benefits/work rules up to ours (ie even the playing field) and we can discuss your hypothesis. Your cheap labor being outsourced (ie the third world phone centers), pure and simple. It appears you're content with that, you're entitled to that. Don't expect me to feel any sort of empathy for any of you.

 

[Axel]

Oh, no empathy requested. Just pointing out that it was mentioned that the lawyers failed to comb the Midwest contract for loopholes and not the fault of the pilots when management found a big one and exploited it, but it is the fault of the the RAH pilots because as individuals they failed to find the sister loophole in their contract that enabled the respective managements exploit the loophole in the Midwest contract.

Then it is put forth that since it was legal per the Midwest contract (the arbitrator said so), the Midwest guys have no choice but to take it because to do otherwise would constitute an illegal job action while, even though it is legal per the RAH pilot contract as well, the RAH pilots are vilified for not engaging in an illegal job action

I'm not defending any side here. I'm just pointing out what appears to be a bit of a double standard.

 

[deadstick]

Once all the 717s are gone, would the arbitrator still rule the operation a "code share" vs "out soursed?"