Majors vs. Beliefs

[Movin' on up!]

Because of my religious beliefs, I don't work from sunset Friday until sunset Saturday, as it is my Sabbath. I heard that a pilot candidate for a major sued to have this same day off citing discrimination etc etc and I believe he won a judgement that would made the airline he applied to give him that the off. At the same time, he would have to work any other day, including any holidays and any schedule that did not infringe on his Sabbath. I also heard that the union agreed to give him this opportunity and the airline made an agreement giving limited number of pilot positions for people that have religious day issues. Does anybody out there know of any rules or companies that allow for this? I know some companies are "desperate" for crews, yet I don't want to put myself in any position where I would a problem with scheduling. Now....before anyone gets too uptight about this, I know my career in aviation has limited possiblities and all that. All I am looking for is info on this. Don't attack me personally for my beliefs (as I know some here are more than willing to take a shot at me) and just be open minded. Thanks in advance for any responses and info.

 

[beechdriver]

Good luck with that. I assume your SDA?

 

[aviatrix]

Fundamental religious beliefs

I've always wondered how pilots with fundamental religious beliefs are able to integrate that with their flying schedules. Jewish, Muslim, LDS, & Jehovah's Witness all have sacred days where work is just not an option. How do they make it work? Anyone with a company that allows them this day off each and every week?
Just have always been curious about this.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Given the turmoil in the industry right now, and the thousands of well qualified applicants for every available position, it should not be an issue. I am sure you will find most carriers will put an applicants desire to have the Sabbath off at the top of the priority list.

I think it is an issue that you really want to hammer home on the interview. Particularly the part about the lawsuit. I think that will score big points.

Let us know how things turn out. We are anxious to hear.

 

[AnimalTale]

I praise you for your devote stance on your religion. I ran into a pilot from a previous airline who got hired without mentioning his Sunday Sabbath. He got hired and when he was forced to work Sundays, he called skeds and they worked it out. In time this led to a lawsuit. And the pilot won.

An airline is run 7 days a week and 24 hours a day. My advice to you is to go talk with your pastor and or be honest with your airline. If you are in an "at will" state this could change because the job description is one of all hours and days.....

Also, if you are part of ALPA, call their legal department and ask! They are quit helpful.

Good Luck



Good

 

[minty fresh]

this needs to go to the YGTBSM section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Corona]

My initial reaction to this post was hostility. After all, why should someone else get priority over my schedule, were I working at such a place? I like watching "The Simpsons" on Sunday night, but I don't think that yet qualifies as a religion.


But here is my sober opinion: I think M.O.U. and others of similar beliefs show how we've all become gears in the machine of aviation. Our lives are bent, broken and twisted to serve this industry, with our personal time not even a consideration. (My last job was on-call, 24/7 135 charter. Know where I'm coming from?) At some point, we have to remember there are higher things in this world than flying, employment and all that other BS.


I think spirituality is a most important component of these higher priorities.

Please keep in mind this statement comes from a confirmed agnostic.

For M.O.U and others of similar persuasion, I suggest forming a interfaith support group of like-minded persons. I think is would be pretty easy to start a web site or message board where you can trade advice and information. I'm sure there are more than six of you working in the industry.

Good luck,
C
BTW, I second the advice about staying away from lawsuits. Work for positive results!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

If you just can't work on Sundays, then this is the wrong business for you. I can't believe people can look at a career, see that it doesn't fit their lifestyle, then bring in lawyers to try and legally arrange special treatment for themselves. I would have liked to have had yesterday off too. The most amazing thing is that I think this guy is serious. Jesus.

 

[capt. megadeth]

My religion does not allow me to work from sunrise on Sunday to sunrise on the next Sunday....do you think I can work that out with my airline?

 

[dash8driver]

i think this falls under: "make sure you meet the qualifications and can work the job before you take it" catagory.

maybe you should try to fly for an SDA company that does not fly on saturdays. to me this is akin to a Jain becoming an infantry soldier, but doesnt want to have to go to battle since its against their religion.

if your job conflicts with your religious beliefs, its time to find a new job. if flying is what makes you happy and your religion conflicts with it and doesnt allow you to be happy, maybe its time to find another religion.

if you must persue it, be up front about it. i'm sure you're not supposed to lie or deceive either. most applications have a spot on the form stating the requirements are to work weekend, holiddays and RON away from home and you have to check off that you agree to do it. make sure you answer honestly. if they dont have that on one of their forms, be sure to ask about it in the interview. you know very well what the requirements are or could be before the interview, its your responsibility to find out at the interview if their job position fits your needs as well.

 

[hellas]

Zealot

 

[Movin' on up!]

I don't know where in the world ya'll get the idea that I am going to sue. I never said that I did, am or going to. I can not relate suing someone with my beliefs. That's just not me. I am currently flying, and just like many other people, have dreams of flying in the airlines, or air ambulance or whatever their aviation dream job has been. I am not "lashing" out against the industry or anything. I simply asked for an opinion or info on the matter. I always have wanted to fly. I knew I would have problems, but I thought that here in America, the land of opportunity, I might have the chance to live according to my beliefs and do what I have always wanted to do.

_________________________________________________

If you just can't work on Sundays, then this is the wrong business for you. I can't believe people can look at a career, see that it doesn't fit their lifestyle, then bring in lawyers to try and legally arrange special treatment for themselves. I would have liked to have had yesterday off too. The most amazing thing is that I think this guy is serious. Jesus.


Hugh...
Learn to pay attention to what is being posted. You bet I am serious. What happens then if you are Jewish? You can't fly? When did I say I was bringing in lawyers? If you have nothing good to say, then don't. If you do, by all means, plesase share.

Corona...
Thanks. That's the spirit.

To every one else...I would love to fly peopl around. I know about all the drawack and all that, but which job has no drawbacks? I am asking in case someone knows any info that could help me. But, like Clint Eatwood said, "a man has to know his limitations." I know mine, but would like to push them if I can.

 

[mmmdonut]

Wow... a lot of anti-semites on here... can't say I'm surprised

 

[NYRANGERS]

Curious

I guess if you hold specific beliefs and they supercede your career goals, you need to find a profession that will fit your needs. There are plenty of jobs that would fit your needs, most flying jobs would not.

Good luck in your search.

 

[de727ups]

How about this....

You go ahead and work a regular schedule and agree not to get paid for the days that fall on Saturday. If you don't get paid...it's not work. Would you agree to that?

Like somebody said...an airline job is 24/7. I can't believe some guy was able to sue to force an airline to always give him Saturdays off. Think of the scheduling nightmare. That sucks.

And I'm a religious guy....

 

[Isla Mujeres]

A lot of applications have a box to tick that says;
Ability to work week ends, holidays, nights, shifts...
If you do not check it, I am not sure what would happen.
But I am pretty sure that 100% of the guys/gals out there, that have a flying job, have checked that box.
If this is serious then everybody has a claim to put in ..
Christians that want Sundays off (and Christmas, etc..). Muslims that want Fridays (and even the whole month of Ramadan) off etc...
We wouldn't have to bid ever again.
That would make a lot of us get religious real fast.

Good Luck.

 

[Vik]

I am going to create a new religion that has holidays on certain days .. that also happen to be co-located with my bday, my anniversary, etc.

What a trip .. Imagine if all the Christians at an American airline taking Xmas off ... the airline would come to a stop.

Gimme a f'n break. If I ran an airline, I'd fire your i job azz and pay the fine for being an anti-semite because some liberal azz judge would rule in your favor.

 

[likeitis]

You know when these people don't work on their "special" days it just makes it so that I have to work those days. I really hate working Saturdays during football season. My cure to this is I bid for reserve schedules with Saturdays off even though I can bid for hard schedules that might have Saturdays off. It sucks but it is what I have to do to get what I want. I could probably claim my love of college football as a religion. I most likely devote more time and sacrifice to it than most do to their religion.

 

[Movin' on up!]

NYRANGERS....the SDA as an institution, has one of the best medical schools in the country. It also has many hospitals in the US and around the world. They are mostly staffed by SDA, who work whenever need. I am not opposed to flying on Saturdays if it is an air-ambulance job. People don't chose when they get hurt, sick or injured in any way.

Listen everybody....I AM LOOKING FOR INFO AND NOT EVERYBODIES OPINION on how you fly when you fly etc. I know that already. I am wanting info on whether it can be done. A, talked to HR and they said dream on will suffice. Lawyers will have a hayday with this one so don't do it will suffice. The union says they can help you out will suffice. The union rep laughed so hard he/she passed out will suffice. HR says to call them and they will hire you and make you captain in a 777 right off the bat flying Mon-Wed for 150K a year will suffice. Seriuosly...I want info, not theological derision.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRANGERS....the SDA as an institution, has one of the best medical schools in the country. It also has many hospitals in the US and around the world. They are mostly staffed by SDA, who work whenever need. I am not opposed to flying on Saturdays if it is an air-ambulance job. People don't chose when they get hurt, sick or injured in any way.

Listen everybody....I AM LOOKING FOR INFO AND NOT EVERYBODIES OPINION on how you fly when you fly etc. I know that already. I am wanting info on whether it can be done. A, talked to HR and they said dream on will suffice. Lawyers will have a hayday with this one so don't do it will suffice. The union says they can help you out will suffice. The union rep laughed so hard he/she passed out will suffice. HR says to call them and they will hire you and make you captain in a 777 right off the bat flying Mon-Wed for 150K a year will suffice. Seriuosly...I want info, not theological derision.

There are a lot of air ambulance jobs out there, that sounds like a good fit. I am also sure there are some operators who may be able to work with your needs. As far as airlines go, it would be difficult to work around your needs until you gained some seniority and were able to bid for the days off.

I am not sure how a union could help you unless you indicated on your application and in your interview of your special needs. If you make your needs clear to a company and they hire you, you might be able to work it out. Getting hired may be a little difficult after you indicate that you could not work durring specific times. Weather, maintainence, re-route's , etc. make this a difficult fit for your day off requirements.

Once you have seniority at a company, you should have no problem bidding for your needed days off. It's just a matter of your ability to get to that point

Good luck with your search.