majors hiring practices

[bgaviator]

Hey all,
I know I have made postings about this in the past, but this is more a specific question in these regards.
Out of curiosity, do most of the majors only hire internally? I heard recently Southwest hired two, but it was internal candidates only. I have NEVER seen postings for Delta...and I was thinking that with the recent merger some of the Northwest dispatchers wouldn't have made the move. But alas, I never see anything. I am curious what will happen with the Continental/United merger as well. So if you're currently at a regional, is your only hope to really possibly flow through to the existing major you're associated with, or is there hope for us yet?


I like the company I work for now...but it just has one major problem....I will NEVER make good money here....it makes me want to puke sometimes thinking that our major counterparts start out making more than what I will top out. Going back and reading responses to some of my past posts, I know a lot of people have said regionals are no longer just a stepping stone, but more of a career....but I just don't know if I can accept that...I expect more, I want more ... I don't think that's wrong of me.

 

[bcp7]

CO, UA, DL and NW have all hired from outside in the past. DL didn't hire very many from outside as their old corporate culture considered dispatchers as management. Employees needed 10 years experience in the company and 2 years as a manager in some other area in order to apply for a dispatch position. Selectees were then sent to Sheffield to obtain their license.

At this point, I would not expect to see hiring by CO or UA individually. Then the number of openings will depend on how many of the CO dispatchers will move to Chicago. Many senior people will probably retire, however the pay increase could entice a large number to move.

A large number of NW dispatchers made the move to ATL due to the 10-15k minimum pay raise they received with the DL scale.

Southwest only recently started hiring from outside the company, probably within the last 3 or 4 years. From what I understand, their criteria is pretty strict and it doesn't necessarily help to have a connection. I worked with a guy at Flexjet who had 10 years or more experience in Part 121 and Part 135 operations whose wife was a dispatcher at Southwest. He couldn't get a look.

Some of the above could be old news. It's too bad that most of the freight dogs are in places I don't really want to live. I am not that interested in the Northeast or Michigan, but may have to change my tune at some point in order to secure employment.

 

[bgaviator]

wow....doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling about my future :-(

 

[dispatchguy]

wow....doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling about my future :-(

Want a warm fuzzy - dont get involved in commercial aviation. I'm just too stupid to get a real gig...

 

[bgaviator]

Want a warm fuzzy - dont get involved in commercial aviation. I'm just too stupid to get a real gig...

Too little, too late for that my friend....I just have to try to achieve the best I can with the skills and career I chose.

 

[aviator202]

Apply at ASA....The dispatchers have a new TA...and if ratified this week, will be an industry leading contract...Good money relatively quickly.

 

[bcp7]

any details? starting pay - work sked? Thanks

 

[clr4theapch]

They just hired a full class last month.. a friend of mine was hired there.. dont expect too much hiring for a while.. F...it... yea I said it..report me!

 

[ABC123]

bgaviator...it appears the majors do not pay the scale like in the past. I interviewed at CO about 2 years ago, and would start out only 2k more than what I am now.

23 years doing this it is my career. I worked for a major, made 42k annually, and presto gone when another carrier purchased their assets, and back to regionals.

It is a tough field, and to tough it out, you have to love aviation, and cannot be looking at money anymore. It is not there any longer

 

[bgaviator]

so how do I get into rail dispatching then? ;-)

 

[aviator202]

Well, bgaviator, I don't know what you consider good money....How about a range you are looking to be paid....

I do know this, the pilots are all psyched that the age 65 requirement will have a lot of pilots retiring, starting in the next 3 years or so....Good for them

No such luck for dispatchers....We have no retirement age ( I know of some dispatchers for a major in their 70s )....Plus most of the folks at the legacy airlines are middle aged or less....So we are looking at about 20-25 years before we see real movement there....

So think about moving to Atlantic Southeast....If we ratify in a few days, we will have the highest paid regional dispatchers....

That is probably the best that can be hoped for in the next two decades or so....

I understand completely if this isn't your cup of tea....May I recommend medical school or law school?

Or you can stay where you are and fight for better compensation....Get involved in your union....If you don't have one, start one!

 

[Squirrel29]

If you want to make decent money look into Cargo. They seem to be doing the hiring right now.

 

[aviator202]

Dang it, I missed that one.....good option Squirrel

 

[bcp7]

There are probably fewer train dispatch jobs than aircraft dispatcher jobs.

I interviewed for a position earlier this year, they did a group presentation for about two hours then one on one interviews based on the time you signed in. They told me they had 12 positions open, and there were like 10 in the group so I figured I was a shoo in but I was not selected. They didn't like the number of jobs on my resume I guess, because that was one of the questions. Several of my employers don't exist any more: Morris Air Service, Prestige Airways, Express.Net Airlines, Cargo 360, but I have to include them (except Morris) to get to the ten years.

Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on, brah

 

[bgaviator]

Yes, we have a union, but personally I feel our contract far more benefited only the utmost senior people at the company. I feel we overall lost far more than we gained ... a lot of the stuff in the contract was not crystal clear to a lot of people, and we basically had just a couple of days to analyze it before we had to come to a vote. Overall I guess it's our fault for signing it ... but when your company has stalled for years on negotiations, you're almost willing to sign anything to get it over with. Our company will never change its mindset I don't believe when it comes to fair compensation.

As far as was what I consider good money ... well, personally I believe I do the exact same job as anyone at a major airline. So why shouldn't I get paid the equivalent, just because I dispatch a 50 seat jet vs. one that has 200 seats? So what? Does that change the basics of being a good dispatcher?

Well, bgaviator, I don't know what you consider good money....How about a range you are looking to be paid....

I do know this, the pilots are all psyched that the age 65 requirement will have a lot of pilots retiring, starting in the next 3 years or so....Good for them

No such luck for dispatchers....We have no retirement age ( I know of some dispatchers for a major in their 70s )....Plus most of the folks at the legacy airlines are middle aged or less....So we are looking at about 20-25 years before we see real movement there....

So think about moving to Atlantic Southeast....If we ratify in a few days, we will have the highest paid regional dispatchers....

That is probably the best that can be hoped for in the next two decades or so....

I understand completely if this isn't your cup of tea....May I recommend medical school or law school?

Or you can stay where you are and fight for better compensation....Get involved in your union....If you don't have one, start one!

 

[bgaviator]

I guess I will have to keep my eyes out on ASA ... depending on how much more it is from what I currently make though other factors would have to be considered ... like the fact I only pay $120/week here for my son's childcare in which he has an excellent caregiver. Or the cheaper rent I have here than what would be in Atlanta. Let us know what happens with your contract, and what the details are if you don't mind providing, thanks.

Has anyone heard what the pay rates are like now at Airtran now that their contract has been updated? I haven't heard a thing. They always seem like a company that is doing well for themselves, although it worries me that a lot of their pilots seem to slam management a lot. I know they wouldn't top out like a legacy carrier would, but even on their old scale I think I could be happy with that.

Like I said, topping out on your contract less than what your major counterparts start out making is a big wake up call to me.

Well, bgaviator, I don't know what you consider good money....How about a range you are looking to be paid....

I do know this, the pilots are all psyched that the age 65 requirement will have a lot of pilots retiring, starting in the next 3 years or so....Good for them

No such luck for dispatchers....We have no retirement age ( I know of some dispatchers for a major in their 70s )....Plus most of the folks at the legacy airlines are middle aged or less....So we are looking at about 20-25 years before we see real movement there....

So think about moving to Atlantic Southeast....If we ratify in a few days, we will have the highest paid regional dispatchers....

That is probably the best that can be hoped for in the next two decades or so....

I understand completely if this isn't your cup of tea....May I recommend medical school or law school?

Or you can stay where you are and fight for better compensation....Get involved in your union....If you don't have one, start one!

 

[brokedash]

I guess I will have to keep my eyes out on ASA ... depending on how much more it is from what I currently make though other factors would have to be considered ... like the fact I only pay $120/week here for my son's childcare in which he has an excellent caregiver. Or the cheaper rent I have here than what would be in Atlanta. Let us know what happens with your contract, and what the details are if you don't mind providing, thanks.

Has anyone heard what the pay rates are like now at Airtran now that their contract has been updated? I haven't heard a thing. They always seem like a company that is doing well for themselves, although it worries me that a lot of their pilots seem to slam management a lot. I know they wouldn't top out like a legacy carrier would, but even on their old scale I think I could be happy with that.

Like I said, topping out on your contract less than what your major counterparts start out making is a big wake up call to me.

I interviewed at FL about 3 years ago. At the time the starting pay was not impressive at all (28K-32K DoE). Nor did i feel the work schedule (4 on/3 off) fit the needs of dispatchers compared to other LCCs. The room they called the SOC was a dump of an office with subpar everything pretty much.

Since that time a new contract has been inked and there new SOC opened last month, so hopefully work conditions, compensation and QOL have
improved. Agreed, it would be nice to know what changed with the contract and at least get a few good pics of the new SOC.

 

[aviator202]

Replying to bgaviator,

Actually regional dispatchers do NOT do the same job as the legacy airlines ( or for that matter most freight airlines ).

First, trans-ocean dispatching requires much greater knowledge and skill than say, generating a release from ORD - IAH.

Second, the liability is MUCH greater for a given flight at the legacy. A fatal mishap with a 200 seat aircraft means up to 200 lawsuits...a fatal with a 50 seat aircraft means a lawsuit with as few as 50 lawsuits....An enormous financial difference....

Now those two items heavily factor into what we get paid....But there is something else at work - long term UNION contracts.

See, all the places you lust to work have pay, workrules and benefits that were accrued over the course of many negotiated contracts...Most regionals have had unions for a much shorter period of time and thus have less plush pay, workrules and benefits. Most regionals are only on their first or second contracts....It takes decades of negotiating to get the legacy style contracts.

Now in your comments you mention your belief that the union is only for the high seniority guys...Wrong idea, wrong attitude...Since you have NEVER volunteered to contribute to your union with your time and effort, why do you believe that others should do the heavy lifting for your career?....Maybe the senior people were responsible for starting the union, negotiating the contract and enforcing the contract....Get involved, don't whine.

No company wants to pay more than the absolute bare minimum for labor...The only real solution for the working man to improve his lot in life IS a labor union....Support your union and DO THE WORK....( And please, don't retort that education is the key...the country is FLOODED with waiters with advanced degrees...I have two myself....They don't provide anywhere near the financial boost they did 25 years ago...)

Because without committed long standing unions at the legacy airlines....their pay would be MUCH lower than it is.....

However, since you seem to think that is you ask and network on this board, a contact will magically appear that will whisk you off to legacy airline paradise land ( and it really isn't as good as you think )...I have another suggestion for you: Sales!...If you are good at it you can make lots and lots of money almost from the start....There is incredible competition for worthwhile sales jobs....but there are big bucks for the hard working and the motivated....and that rare ability to persuade....

 

[bgaviator]

aviator202,
Thank you for your response. You are probably correct in that due to the majors being around much longer, it has probably taken their dispatchers a long time to get the scales they have. That makes sense. I guess I never thought of it that way. Yeah, I work with a guy who went to the majors and left when he saw the writing on the wall that he was going to get laid off. I guess they hired him, and within just weeks they were already talking about layoffs. He tries to convince me all the time that I actually have it better at the regional. The pay may not be comparable, but he says we have much better software and work environment.

 

[Squirrel29]

Also people need to stop taking jobs with sub par wages. If a airline isnt paying dispatchers what they should be making dont take the job. I just went through being unemployed and one of the main things I did was not lower my standards just for a job. Sure it took longer than it should have to get reemployed but I finally found one that I felt paid me for what I am worth.

 

[clr4theapch]

Holding out and the school pools..

Also people need to stop taking jobs with sub par wages. If a airline isnt paying dispatchers what they should be making dont take the job. I just went through being unemployed and one of the main things I did was not lower my standards just for a job. Sure it took longer than it should have to get reemployed but I finally found one that I felt paid me for what I am worth.

Squirrel, I like you have mentioned not taking jobs for substandard pay..as I too over the past 7 years have probably been on more interviews that offered jobs than most dispatchers have done in their lives..only to turn them down, for mostly the same reasons you mention..( there are many here that know my story and thanks for not rubbing it in)
Being a career changer 10 years ago, I was sold the "blue sky dream by my school in that 6 figures was the top out pay for dispatchers.. and my dream was ignited..
Of course they failed to mention that it was a very slow progression ( if ever) to get to that pay rate.. 10 years ago, there was'nt the information flow that we have today, the communication (like this) and the economy as not nearly as bad as it today..
The reality of learning that most companies are located in expensive cities that one can barely afford to live in a crash pad in, let alone a family also became a big player in the final outcomes.. J/S became increasingly harder for dispatchers.. all of it tough on the paycheck and more so as one gets older with a family to support..

Having worked for a regional a cargo carrier, and several failed startups.. I soon learned the "real world" of dispatching was not what I originally thought it was.. (Doh).. but I continued to get interviews and offers that just did not make it financially possible to take.... I was always nice with HR's or managers when thay asked why I turned them down.. by letting them know the pay structure was too low for the work we do or for the vast experience I personally had to bring there from my professional life.. of course this means nothing as the unions contracts dictated the starting pay and the company hands were tied.. making it easy for them, never the less they knew why I did not take the offers.. even to my own demize I somehow figured at the time that maybe this would help future contracts and payscales.. silly me..

The biggest problem that will always continue to promote this syndrome is the constant green students coming out of schools willing to sell their souls to get that first airline job dispatching.. the companys know it, and its fine with them.. the union contracts continue to force these lowly wages on new hires, not matter if they are 23 just out of schools or someone with 30 years of overall experience.. it all pays the same... (in my opinion, this is a major flaw in the unions thinking). If the unions were to recognise experience from other carriers and pay new hires accordingly.. I think this would raise the entires staffs pay rates as a whole..

The lession I learned here is obvious, all the individual protesting to the pay rates by guys like you and me and others.. does nothing.. but hurt us individully, nothing is going to change until the currently employed union dispatchers insist on major changes that recognize "past" experience and pay accordingly to new hires as it applies..otherwise poor new hires will continue to get hred and the more senior dispatchers pay wll still be dragging an anchor behind them.. Of course the companys will never approve such a contract, opening the door to higher labor rates..

Bottom line in todays world is the same as it has been for 50 years.. if you move to a new airline, you will start at the bottom of the food chain.. period..
If one does not have the right kind of experience, the "inside network" then the chances of getting to a legacy carrier are probably 95% against you.. Thus the saying the regional jobs are the new career position for most.. (Bagviator).. so good luck..

This is a young and single persons game now.. or now that my empty nest is cheaper, I can move anywhere for a new gig..

"Of course I could be wrong"...JMHO