Major job w/o PIC time?

[FlyingToIST]

Would any major be interested in a pilot with 3/4000 hrs of time in type with only F/O time? I am considering a job in Turkey with a 737 or A320 operator but the upgrades here are brutal (7-10 years). I find useless of working in there for 3/4 years with no shot at operators like Southwest, JetBlue, Sprit or whoever is hiring at the time if lack of 1000 PIC hrs will be an issue.

Thanks...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

In the mid 1990s it was very rare for a company to require the 1000 hrs pic turbine.

In fact, only FedEx and Southwest had such a requirement.

In the late 1990s many, MANY first-officers were hired by the majors with little or no PIC turbine. When they were furloughed in 2001 many of these folks found themselves in a world of hurt -- the rules had changed mid-game!!!

For example...

US Airways furloughees, many of whom had flown the 737 since the late 1980s and who had thousands upon thousands of hours in the aircraft, and who were type-rated in the aircraft, suddenly found themselves unqualified to seek employment elsewhere.

To answer your question, I would think that the PIC turbine is extremely important now if you wish to remain in the airline industry.

But let's all pray that they don't change the rules in the middle of the game yet again...and add yet another qualification that only a select few have.

 

[pilotyip]

No they do not care about SIC time right now, anyone can be a SIC, you do not prove your skills until you are a PIC. There are too many highly qualified pilots looking for jobs. The companies can be very selective right now, unlike the late 90's. There are places in the on-demand and scheduled cargo business where you could get a PIC slot and build up that magic 1000 hrs TJ PIC and become competitive.

 

[Dutch]

Don't have to prove your skills as an SIC? Wow, maybe next time I should just sit on my ass and let the toolbox in the left seat attempt to "catch" the glideslope from 4000' high and less than 3 miles from the marker at 70 kts over approach speed. I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[Dutch]

How about this one. The almighty PIC who ignored 3 "hold short" statements by me and was flustered when I took the brakes away from him to stop a runway incursion with a FAA POI (not ours) in the jumpseat. Yeah, they should just get rid of all the FO seats in the cockpit. Maybe then the EMB wouldn't be weight restricted all the time.

 

[Fins Up]

Wow. It only took three replies for someone to get offended. That's not bad.

Like it or not 0 PIC time means 0 chance at a major. Even guys who make the mins are fighting for the job.

Overseas is one option or get a small-time job as a freight dog or something else for a couple years and get your 1000 PIC. For a lot of companies, they want the 1000 PIC time to be turbine and sometimes multi.

Hope I'm not bursting any bubbles but that's the way it is right now. Good luck.

Don't have to prove your skills as an SIC? Wow, maybe next time I should just sit on my ass and let the toolbox in the left seat attempt to "catch" the glideslope from 4000' high and less than 3 miles from the marker at 70 kts over approach speed. I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[ATRCA]

How about this one. The almighty PIC who ignored 3 "hold short" statements by me and was flustered when I took the brakes away from him to stop a runway incursion with a FAA POI (not ours) in the jumpseat. Yeah, they should just get rid of all the FO seats in the cockpit. Maybe then the EMB wouldn't be weight restricted all the time.

Holy $hit, hope I never have to fly with you. Look, I understand your frustration. In light of the fact I think your at Eagle, I really symathize with your position and your animosity toward those in the left seat.

 

[Dutch]

OK, maybe I over-reacted. I re-read my post and I sound really bitter. Maybe the 97+ hours this month has gotten under my skin. Let me clarify something. I don't have any animosity towards the men and women I fly with (AE, AA, TWA, etc.). I do hate that some treat the left seat as a throne and don't seem to have any clue what CRM is.

I agree, the number of pilots with extensive PIC time on the market dictates that companies are going to hire the "known quantity" with prior PIC experience. The fact that companies can be more selective does not, however, diminish the value of SIC experience. And since we are generalizing...the worst guys I've come in contact with from a CRM standpoint were fast upgrades (i.e. less than a couple years in the right seat).

Oh yeah. This was the second time this type of thing happened to me. Thankfully the first time the CA responded to input. Both occurred at CLE with the non-standard hold-short line orientation between the runways.

I really took this off on a tangent. I'll stop hijacking this thread. To address the original question, get the PIC time if possible.

 

[clickclickboom]

I have been a PIC for a little over 6 yrs now

OK, maybe I over-reacted. I re-read my post and I sound really bitter. Maybe the 97+ hours this month has gotten under my skin. Let me clarify something. I don't have any animosity towards the men and women I fly with (AE, AA, TWA, etc.). I do hate that some treat the left seat as a throne and don't seem to have any clue what CRM is.

I agree, the number of pilots with extensive PIC time on the market dictates that companies are going to hire the "known quantity" with prior PIC experience. The fact that companies can be more selective does not, however, diminish the value of SIC experience. And since we are generalizing...the worst guys I've come in contact with from a CRM standpoint were fast upgrades (i.e. less than a couple years in the right seat).

Oh yeah. This was the second time this type of thing happened to me. Thankfully the first time the CA responded to input. Both occurred at CLE with the non-standard hold-short line orientation between the runways.

I really took this off on a tangent. I'll stop hijacking this thread. To address the original question, get the PIC time if possible.

And I will be thefirst to say that you should not tolerate that. First I wouldnt ever treat an FO that way and Second you need to file a complaint with standards and safety. Times are tough for the airlines right now and they cannot afford to have what you are describing in the left seat.. Plus the airlines all know that just like Rambo we are all expendable and easily replaced for half the pay

 

[AlbieF15]

...you need to do whatever it takes to get the PIC...

It is sad, but I have worked with some guys who were young boy-wonders back in the late 80's and got hired by Piedmont or USAir without 1000 PIC. There are some similar stories at other majors..

The BAD news is if you are ever furloughed, you aren't very competitive without the PIC. I know of one US Air guy who stayed right seat for Q of life for 15 years. After he was F-lo'd, he is now out of aviation in another field, because he simply cannot compete--even with the guy who was flying caravans or 135 charter. 1000 PIC turbine is huge. 1000 PIC multi-turbine is even better. (FYI...FedEx won't hire a bunch of Navy guys who have only PIC turbine SE time in the T-34 and don't have 1000 multi-turbine). I'm not saying its good/bad/right/wrong....but if you want to move up in this business you need to suck it up and get that PIC...then you can go camp in the right seat of bigger/better equipment.

And like all generalizations...I say "usually..."...there are always exceptions.

Good luck in any case!