flyboysgal
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FearlessFreep
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flyboysgal
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FearlessFreep
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Twice in 5.
Cry for SWA? I think not. It was my second interview as well.
There were occurences and incidents during my interview that made it very clear that they had no interest in me and no intention of hiring me. The biggest thing was using my three year old application information in the interview instead of using the contemporary version that I sent to them 3 weeks in advance. I have no idea why they even bothered calling me in unless they think that this makes them so wonderful to work for because they are so nice to everyone! I don't need their duplicitious attitude.
That was just one thing, there were others as well.
There will be no third time for me.
I had enough of their phoney baloney, and insincerity.
It's time to pick yourselves up and get back on the horse. Who knows, If your mate was hired by them he might find their unctuous attitude intolerable. Remember also that SWA makes a very big deal of the probationary period. They even go as far as defining people as "probies". It is not that unusual for people to be drummed out during that time. Of course no one is going to want to admit to that. If your mate feels bad about not getting picked up by SWA imagine how he would feel if he didn't make through the first year. You have to fit their little "family" perfectly or your going to have problems.
Yeah I know this is from the outside looking in. I have done a lot of research on this and talked to many SWA people about it. I am being as objective as I can. I am sure that the company works well for many of the people there, if you fit their ideals. All I am trying to say is that if they did not select your mate it may be for the best. Remember the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."
Cry for SWA? I think not. It was my second interview as well.
There were occurences and incidents during my interview that made it very clear that they had no interest in me and no intention of hiring me. The biggest thing was using my three year old application information in the interview instead of using the contemporary version that I sent to them 3 weeks in advance. I have no idea why they even bothered calling me in unless they think that this makes them so wonderful to work for because they are so nice to everyone! I don't need their duplicitious attitude.
That was just one thing, there were others as well.
There will be no third time for me.
I had enough of their phoney baloney, and insincerity.
It's time to pick yourselves up and get back on the horse. Who knows, If your mate was hired by them he might find their unctuous attitude intolerable. Remember also that SWA makes a very big deal of the probationary period. They even go as far as defining people as "probies". It is not that unusual for people to be drummed out during that time. Of course no one is going to want to admit to that. If your mate feels bad about not getting picked up by SWA imagine how he would feel if he didn't make through the first year. You have to fit their little "family" perfectly or your going to have problems.
Yeah I know this is from the outside looking in. I have done a lot of research on this and talked to many SWA people about it. I am being as objective as I can. I am sure that the company works well for many of the people there, if you fit their ideals. All I am trying to say is that if they did not select your mate it may be for the best. Remember the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."
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flyboysgal
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well, it is nice.
Sounds like you are paying the bills and flying high. Nobodys boots gonna get shiney by you lickin' em, eh?
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
Sounds like it would be hard to fit into the family and I know much you wanted them to change so you could. It is hard smiling all the time, might hurt.
Seems like you THOUGHT it would have been fun until you got there. You also sound (ok, they could start coming out of the woods but...) like the first who had a hard time at the interview.
I thought I read that there was over a 90 something % retention... (that didn't wash out, is what I mean. )
I think there was another saying about "Attitude is everything" which could come into play here.
So I will tell him not to look for you at the next try. Okeedokey then.
Sounds like you are paying the bills and flying high. Nobodys boots gonna get shiney by you lickin' em, eh?
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
Sounds like it would be hard to fit into the family and I know much you wanted them to change so you could. It is hard smiling all the time, might hurt.
Seems like you THOUGHT it would have been fun until you got there. You also sound (ok, they could start coming out of the woods but...) like the first who had a hard time at the interview.
I thought I read that there was over a 90 something % retention... (that didn't wash out, is what I mean. )
I think there was another saying about "Attitude is everything" which could come into play here.
So I will tell him not to look for you at the next try. Okeedokey then.
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FearlessFreep
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You got it all wrong. But that's OK. You don't know anything about this business and absolutely NOTHING about me. You do not know how hard I work or my dedication to my job.
I had nothing to say that was insulting to anyone. Why you have to personally attack me is beyond reason.
I does seem like you drank a lot of Koolaid though.
Snivel somewhere else.
We are all passionate of our work and rejection hurts everyone. Cry about it. Get over it, and move on.
Adios Muchaca!
I had nothing to say that was insulting to anyone. Why you have to personally attack me is beyond reason.
I does seem like you drank a lot of Koolaid though.
Snivel somewhere else.
We are all passionate of our work and rejection hurts everyone. Cry about it. Get over it, and move on.
Adios Muchaca!
flyboysgal
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InHot
Oh Yeahhhh
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Moving On
Flyboysgal,
Best of luck to you and your guy.
I trust your guy was working all along for other opportunities. Up until ten minutes before I got the call from JM I was on the phone trying to break down doors for interviews with Frontier, ATA and Spirit.
Opportunities are breaking out slowly but surely. Just have 'em keep at it.
I was furloughed 12 Sep 01 and have been out of work since then. I've had six flying position interviews and was shot down by four companies... can't explain why. Like you said in one of your previous post; it's their game, their rules, they can do what they want and hire whom they please.
I guess it's just the way our minds operate; we analyze the experience (pro/con), try to learn something from the whole thing, then file it away and forget about it, unitl we need to retrieve for some stated purose.
High school, college, OCS, flight school, flying in the fleet, being promoted, medals/awards, 20 successful military/flying years, retired, got job offers, captain with a 121 carrier...life was good.
Then 9/11. Whoa! Where's that company the pays my salary? Hey, no problem I'll just get another job.
Furloughs? Everyone? Naw, EJA is hiring, love those Midway guys. Hey I'll interview there.
GUT SHOT! .
Hey, what's that? Rejection, failure, never expereinced that before (except for SWA and lots of females!). NO problem, pick myself up off the floor, stuff my guts back in my stomach and move on.
AirTran? Didn't furlough? Hiring? Loves those Midway guys! Beat down that door, get that interview.
BOOM! ...Horizontal butt stroke to cranium!
Hey, that hurts, why you'd do that? I'm a great guy, you hired that whining turd who was there the same day, why not me?
Alright, pick yourself back up.... Corporate job, they're hiring?
And it goes on and on and on.
Just continue to be there to help clean up the mess and get him back on his feet. It doesn't take us long and we can do it by ourselves, but it is nice to have you there!
Keep the pointy end forward!
Flyboysgal,
Best of luck to you and your guy.
I trust your guy was working all along for other opportunities. Up until ten minutes before I got the call from JM I was on the phone trying to break down doors for interviews with Frontier, ATA and Spirit.
Opportunities are breaking out slowly but surely. Just have 'em keep at it.
I was furloughed 12 Sep 01 and have been out of work since then. I've had six flying position interviews and was shot down by four companies... can't explain why. Like you said in one of your previous post; it's their game, their rules, they can do what they want and hire whom they please.
I guess it's just the way our minds operate; we analyze the experience (pro/con), try to learn something from the whole thing, then file it away and forget about it, unitl we need to retrieve for some stated purose.
High school, college, OCS, flight school, flying in the fleet, being promoted, medals/awards, 20 successful military/flying years, retired, got job offers, captain with a 121 carrier...life was good.
Then 9/11. Whoa! Where's that company the pays my salary? Hey, no problem I'll just get another job.
Furloughs? Everyone? Naw, EJA is hiring, love those Midway guys. Hey I'll interview there.
GUT SHOT! .
Hey, what's that? Rejection, failure, never expereinced that before (except for SWA and lots of females!). NO problem, pick myself up off the floor, stuff my guts back in my stomach and move on.
AirTran? Didn't furlough? Hiring? Loves those Midway guys! Beat down that door, get that interview.
BOOM! ...Horizontal butt stroke to cranium!
Hey, that hurts, why you'd do that? I'm a great guy, you hired that whining turd who was there the same day, why not me?
Alright, pick yourself back up.... Corporate job, they're hiring?
And it goes on and on and on.
Just continue to be there to help clean up the mess and get him back on his feet. It doesn't take us long and we can do it by ourselves, but it is nice to have you there!
Keep the pointy end forward!
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In hot,
Great attitude! One has to keep plugging along regardless of how dim things get. Well done. Look forward to seeing you at the new guy party this spring or summer.
Fearless,
To correct a few items you mentioned in your post.
First of all if the info they were using was 3 years old my apologies. With the internet the way it is, the difficulty in verifying what you say is true is difficult. I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening but there is always a first time. Again, my apologies, no excuses. Just curious, did you point this out to anyone that the info wasn't current? I'm confident that if you had, the interviewers would have provided that feedback to the folks who had screwed up & would try not to have that happen again. Additionally, most folks when they come to the interview have a copy of everything they have sent to the company, including resume. Having this info would have provided them with all they need to know anyway. BTW, the interviewers ONLY have access to your resume, nothing more. No background info, no LORs, nothing. This allows the interviewers to have as uncluttered a view of you as possible with no outside influences other than YOUR OWN resume. If the resume they had was old, whip out the new one & say "um, I think this one is more current, pls use this one, thanks."
In terms of probation. I've never heard the term "probies" before. I've never been at another major so don't have anything to compare it to but I thought everyone treated me great while on probation & mine wasn't a flawless probation!! I've heard of only 1 or 2 folks not making it through probation & only 1 person not making it through IOE over the last 2-3 yrs. If you have other data then I'll stand corrected. Maybe the folks you have spoken too didn't have my experience, if so then I understand your comments. However, generally I've not heard of many problems that weren't overcome by perserverance & effort + attitude.
Your comments about attitude are correct. We are looking for folks who have a similar attitude to the interviewers, current employees of the company. Diversity in culture, race, religion are all fine. Attitude diversity is not something most companies desire. EVERY COMPANY would like to have positive, upbeat, take charge employees. However, most settle for less & compromise that aspect of a person's personality for the skills they bring to the table. SWA doesn't & it has paid off for them. SWA has always said, we hire for attitude...we can train the folks to do any job we have. Lets face it, there are a ton of pilots out there, as are computer folks, schedulers, marketing types. What can't be taught or instilled in folks is how you approach your job & fellow workers. As one of our senior executives says, "YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN HAPPINESS." The company isn't, your spouse isn't, your kids aren't, you are. So if one doesn't display an attitude in the 3 x 45 minute sessions that encompanses the things I've spoken about above, you won't get hired. Simple as that. However, nothing prevents someone from coming back again if they so desire. No value judgement about the person. Not all of my friends that I have or people I like would do well at SWA, doesn't mean they are bad folks, just different. They're still my friends.
Sorry the experience didn't turn out well for you but condemming the company for what type of people it will hire would be like telling YOU what type of friends you should have. Any company should be allowed to hire the type of folks THEY feel will be the best for their company. Otherwise, let anyone off the street walkup & get a job. While the process may seem harsh to those turned down, it is a process, LEGAL, reasonable & most importantly consistent IMHO.
I'm sure you are a great person with great skills & will do well somewhere else. IMHO, if one walks away from the experience bitter I believe it says more about the individual than it does the company. As evidence by the number of folks who come back 2, 3, 4 times and are eventually hired. Some are never hired. Doesn't mean they are dirt bags, just not the type folks SWA is looking for.
Good luck, God Bless in your quest for a flying job.
Sorry about the rambling. I don't want to get into a big battle of philosophy on this web site about this subject. It is worth rambling about but not on this thread. My apologies to all for digressing slightly.
Great attitude! One has to keep plugging along regardless of how dim things get. Well done. Look forward to seeing you at the new guy party this spring or summer.
Fearless,
To correct a few items you mentioned in your post.
First of all if the info they were using was 3 years old my apologies. With the internet the way it is, the difficulty in verifying what you say is true is difficult. I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening but there is always a first time. Again, my apologies, no excuses. Just curious, did you point this out to anyone that the info wasn't current? I'm confident that if you had, the interviewers would have provided that feedback to the folks who had screwed up & would try not to have that happen again. Additionally, most folks when they come to the interview have a copy of everything they have sent to the company, including resume. Having this info would have provided them with all they need to know anyway. BTW, the interviewers ONLY have access to your resume, nothing more. No background info, no LORs, nothing. This allows the interviewers to have as uncluttered a view of you as possible with no outside influences other than YOUR OWN resume. If the resume they had was old, whip out the new one & say "um, I think this one is more current, pls use this one, thanks."
In terms of probation. I've never heard the term "probies" before. I've never been at another major so don't have anything to compare it to but I thought everyone treated me great while on probation & mine wasn't a flawless probation!! I've heard of only 1 or 2 folks not making it through probation & only 1 person not making it through IOE over the last 2-3 yrs. If you have other data then I'll stand corrected. Maybe the folks you have spoken too didn't have my experience, if so then I understand your comments. However, generally I've not heard of many problems that weren't overcome by perserverance & effort + attitude.
Your comments about attitude are correct. We are looking for folks who have a similar attitude to the interviewers, current employees of the company. Diversity in culture, race, religion are all fine. Attitude diversity is not something most companies desire. EVERY COMPANY would like to have positive, upbeat, take charge employees. However, most settle for less & compromise that aspect of a person's personality for the skills they bring to the table. SWA doesn't & it has paid off for them. SWA has always said, we hire for attitude...we can train the folks to do any job we have. Lets face it, there are a ton of pilots out there, as are computer folks, schedulers, marketing types. What can't be taught or instilled in folks is how you approach your job & fellow workers. As one of our senior executives says, "YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN HAPPINESS." The company isn't, your spouse isn't, your kids aren't, you are. So if one doesn't display an attitude in the 3 x 45 minute sessions that encompanses the things I've spoken about above, you won't get hired. Simple as that. However, nothing prevents someone from coming back again if they so desire. No value judgement about the person. Not all of my friends that I have or people I like would do well at SWA, doesn't mean they are bad folks, just different. They're still my friends.
Sorry the experience didn't turn out well for you but condemming the company for what type of people it will hire would be like telling YOU what type of friends you should have. Any company should be allowed to hire the type of folks THEY feel will be the best for their company. Otherwise, let anyone off the street walkup & get a job. While the process may seem harsh to those turned down, it is a process, LEGAL, reasonable & most importantly consistent IMHO.
I'm sure you are a great person with great skills & will do well somewhere else. IMHO, if one walks away from the experience bitter I believe it says more about the individual than it does the company. As evidence by the number of folks who come back 2, 3, 4 times and are eventually hired. Some are never hired. Doesn't mean they are dirt bags, just not the type folks SWA is looking for.
Good luck, God Bless in your quest for a flying job.
Sorry about the rambling. I don't want to get into a big battle of philosophy on this web site about this subject. It is worth rambling about but not on this thread. My apologies to all for digressing slightly.
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Badda BING
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 21
still waiting....still waiting
Just got registered....
It's Friday and still waiting for notification from SWA.
I do spend a lot of time on the computer, so hopefully the line was busy?
Same vibes as many:
Read NUTS,
Interview went very well,
Background check completed,
They Spoke with Chief Pilot for an hour; good recommendation,
They spoke with several SWA pilots, who provided good recommendations,
Pilot doing background check stated I did well with the interview,
Had type before applying.
Either way, I will post my results, background, and opinion of the process.
Getting turned down hurts, but it's funny how things turn out in the end.
I'm lucky to have a backup, but was just tryng to make a better career.
Never give up and keep the positive attitude......
Tony S.
Just got registered....
It's Friday and still waiting for notification from SWA.
I do spend a lot of time on the computer, so hopefully the line was busy?
Same vibes as many:
Read NUTS,
Interview went very well,
Background check completed,
They Spoke with Chief Pilot for an hour; good recommendation,
They spoke with several SWA pilots, who provided good recommendations,
Pilot doing background check stated I did well with the interview,
Had type before applying.
Either way, I will post my results, background, and opinion of the process.
Getting turned down hurts, but it's funny how things turn out in the end.
I'm lucky to have a backup, but was just tryng to make a better career.
Never give up and keep the positive attitude......
Tony S.
DalLeardriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 27
Know The Feeling!
Newly Registered Friday,
flyboysgal I am sorry to hear the news. I have been reading this form because of the DB and feel like I have been with ya'll every time you go to the mail box. I talked to a friend who also recieved a letter yesterday. I have been trying to stay busy flying and trying not to think about the mail either. Infact, LOL, I send my wife to get it when I am home.
I am try to figure out this whole process. I live here in the Dallas area and I would think that if bad news was mailed out that I would be the first one to get hit. Do they send out the letters the same date? My friend said that his was dated the 21st and post marked the 22nd.
Chase maybe you can shed some light on this process.
I think maybe they call people according to the last 2 digits of the SS #. My last digits are 97 (no call, no letter yet) and a close friend of mine said that he was called 2 whole weeks after the DB. His last 2 #'s are 99. Am I still in the running? This waiting is killing me.
Newly Registered Friday,
flyboysgal I am sorry to hear the news. I have been reading this form because of the DB and feel like I have been with ya'll every time you go to the mail box. I talked to a friend who also recieved a letter yesterday. I have been trying to stay busy flying and trying not to think about the mail either. Infact, LOL, I send my wife to get it when I am home.
I am try to figure out this whole process. I live here in the Dallas area and I would think that if bad news was mailed out that I would be the first one to get hit. Do they send out the letters the same date? My friend said that his was dated the 21st and post marked the 22nd.
Chase maybe you can shed some light on this process.
I think maybe they call people according to the last 2 digits of the SS #. My last digits are 97 (no call, no letter yet) and a close friend of mine said that he was called 2 whole weeks after the DB. His last 2 #'s are 99. Am I still in the running? This waiting is killing me.
dallear,
I'm sure they have a method but I'm not aware of it. Maybe SS#, who knows. The bottom line is if you haven't gotten a letter yet saying "no thanks", you're still in the running. As I advise folks, wait exactly 2 weeks from the DB (7 Mar), call on 8 March to the PD & ask for some intel. They'll either give you the good news or bad news at that time over the phone (I believe). The purpose isn't to make it painful but when you have 250+ folks not everyone is notified in the most expeditious manner sometimes. Its not a perfect world. I know the girls in there are working as hard as they can to get things out quickly. Just continue to hang (in there) for another week. Best of luck.
I'm sure they have a method but I'm not aware of it. Maybe SS#, who knows. The bottom line is if you haven't gotten a letter yet saying "no thanks", you're still in the running. As I advise folks, wait exactly 2 weeks from the DB (7 Mar), call on 8 March to the PD & ask for some intel. They'll either give you the good news or bad news at that time over the phone (I believe). The purpose isn't to make it painful but when you have 250+ folks not everyone is notified in the most expeditious manner sometimes. Its not a perfect world. I know the girls in there are working as hard as they can to get things out quickly. Just continue to hang (in there) for another week. Best of luck.
SWA/FO
5 Star Senior Member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,520
Sorry, things have not turned out for a few of you. Like Chase, I have never heard the term "probies" (or whatever you said).
I have been where you are now, not with SWA but other carriers. I didn't have the right stuff for US Airways, TWA, Fed Ex -it hurt, but in the end it made me stronger/better person.
I've had a few friends get rejected by SWA, I wonder why? But I was not present in the interview....
Drink a few beers and get back on that dam horse! Good Luck
I have been where you are now, not with SWA but other carriers. I didn't have the right stuff for US Airways, TWA, Fed Ex -it hurt, but in the end it made me stronger/better person.
I've had a few friends get rejected by SWA, I wonder why? But I was not present in the interview....
Drink a few beers and get back on that dam horse! Good Luck
Badda BING
Member
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- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 21
Gut Wrenching....Do you agree?
Dalleardriver,
We're in the same boat. Who gets the life preserver?
My last two digits are 16, so your theory might not stick, but who knows. This process is so much different than all the others.
I know how you feel. There's not one day that goes by without thinking about our fate. The most difficult aspect of the whole process is the waiting between the interview and notification.
I felt a little teased when the background check was being completed and especially with all the thumbs up indications from my SWA buddies and current Chief Pilot.
If it would have ended after the interview, it would've been easier to move on and focus on something else.
I'm now trying to have fun with this whole waiting game. My fiance and I laugh whenever we check the mail and the letter is not there.
I've been saved for another day. God will decide when it's my time to get the letter. Before I end this wonderful day, I'll pray to God to spare me for another day.
I'll take Chase's advice and attempt to contact Jen on March 8th. I hope I make it that far!
Don't give up, and think positive.
Fly Safe,
Tony S.
It's Friday night and I'm still in the game, until........
Dalleardriver,
We're in the same boat. Who gets the life preserver?
My last two digits are 16, so your theory might not stick, but who knows. This process is so much different than all the others.
I know how you feel. There's not one day that goes by without thinking about our fate. The most difficult aspect of the whole process is the waiting between the interview and notification.
I felt a little teased when the background check was being completed and especially with all the thumbs up indications from my SWA buddies and current Chief Pilot.
If it would have ended after the interview, it would've been easier to move on and focus on something else.
I'm now trying to have fun with this whole waiting game. My fiance and I laugh whenever we check the mail and the letter is not there.
I've been saved for another day. God will decide when it's my time to get the letter. Before I end this wonderful day, I'll pray to God to spare me for another day.
I'll take Chase's advice and attempt to contact Jen on March 8th. I hope I make it that far!
Don't give up, and think positive.
Fly Safe,
Tony S.
It's Friday night and I'm still in the game, until........
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
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DalLeardriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 27
Got the letter
Well,
This is where I bid my good-by and show my self to the door. My wife came in with the letter. Not good. So live goes on and I will try again in one and half years. SWA is still where I want to be. No bitterness here just thankfull for the experience.
Good luck everyone!
DalLearDriver
Well,
This is where I bid my good-by and show my self to the door. My wife came in with the letter. Not good. So live goes on and I will try again in one and half years. SWA is still where I want to be. No bitterness here just thankfull for the experience.
Good luck everyone!
DalLearDriver
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
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- 53
cargocanine
Member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 9
Letter
It is like when you ask the girl you have a crush on to the prom and she guns you down. I have been in love with Southwest for a long time. I have never even considered another major never mind applied anywhere else. It has never been about a job, always the mission. I just want to smash bags on Thanksgiving Eve and get everyone to Grandma's for Christmas and do my small part to keep the fares low for everyone. I am a good pilot and a good person and I will always wonder if I failed to make that come across in the interview or if the competition was just too tough in this environment. I will be back in a year or so for round two and I may have more hours and better stories and Bob Beeks interview technique but really I will be the same person I am right now.
As for some funny or ironic stories: I was waiting for my letter this week and not only did it show up today, but someone else's letter was stuck to it. Just one of the many things that can happen that don't happen too often. If it is yours, I will mail it out on Monday. Should be getting to you around Wednesday or Thursday. Friday at the latest. It will not have the Dallas postmark. Sorry. It was hard getting my own but to see that was like a punch in the stomach. I do not know why that upset me more but it sure did. Maybe just knowing that someone is out there waiting and wondering and hoping.
Some one wrote that SWA called and talked to their Chief Pilot for an hour. I stopped by my CP's office today and he asked, "You are Mr.........?" This despite the fact that unsolicited recommendations for doing an exceptional job have been crossing his desk at about one a week from every department in the company. I can only wonder what my background check went like.
Anyhow.... Congratulations to those that made it. You obviously worked hard to get where you are. I am truly happy for you.
For those that didn't... Keep up the hard work. Dreams do come true. I am sure that flying was just a dream at one point. Keep in touch. Anything I can do to help you find a job or get to SWA eventually I will do.
For me... I will put the Nuts book away for a few months and delete the Southwest screen saver for a while. I will get the type this summer when I can put my full effort into it. I will keep looking for a new job because I may not be going to Harvard but I am d@mn sure going to college!
Take Care everyone. Love, CC
It is like when you ask the girl you have a crush on to the prom and she guns you down. I have been in love with Southwest for a long time. I have never even considered another major never mind applied anywhere else. It has never been about a job, always the mission. I just want to smash bags on Thanksgiving Eve and get everyone to Grandma's for Christmas and do my small part to keep the fares low for everyone. I am a good pilot and a good person and I will always wonder if I failed to make that come across in the interview or if the competition was just too tough in this environment. I will be back in a year or so for round two and I may have more hours and better stories and Bob Beeks interview technique but really I will be the same person I am right now.
As for some funny or ironic stories: I was waiting for my letter this week and not only did it show up today, but someone else's letter was stuck to it. Just one of the many things that can happen that don't happen too often. If it is yours, I will mail it out on Monday. Should be getting to you around Wednesday or Thursday. Friday at the latest. It will not have the Dallas postmark. Sorry. It was hard getting my own but to see that was like a punch in the stomach. I do not know why that upset me more but it sure did. Maybe just knowing that someone is out there waiting and wondering and hoping.
Some one wrote that SWA called and talked to their Chief Pilot for an hour. I stopped by my CP's office today and he asked, "You are Mr.........?" This despite the fact that unsolicited recommendations for doing an exceptional job have been crossing his desk at about one a week from every department in the company. I can only wonder what my background check went like.
Anyhow.... Congratulations to those that made it. You obviously worked hard to get where you are. I am truly happy for you.
For those that didn't... Keep up the hard work. Dreams do come true. I am sure that flying was just a dream at one point. Keep in touch. Anything I can do to help you find a job or get to SWA eventually I will do.
For me... I will put the Nuts book away for a few months and delete the Southwest screen saver for a while. I will get the type this summer when I can put my full effort into it. I will keep looking for a new job because I may not be going to Harvard but I am d@mn sure going to college!
Take Care everyone. Love, CC
reepicheep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Posts
- 890
I think the hour-long phone call you mentioned was to a reference, not a former employer. No chief pilot or other former employer is going to spend an hour or even five minutes for that matter on the phone if they want to stay out of legal hot water. "Yes, so and so was employed here as a pilot from this date to this date. Yes, he was a captain for part of that time." End of call. If they say anything more it's time to consult an attorney.
FearlessFreep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 330
To Chase:
Yes I did bring up to the interviewer the problem with the three year old app. He said that "It didn't matter". Well, during those three years I amassed a fair amount of jet experience and other job experience that I would have thought to be relevant.
I have heard of "probies" a while ago on one of the incantations of this board actually and confirmed the existence of the phrase with some SWA people.
I am not trying to say that a strong prevalence of people are washed out of SWA. I am trying to say there are some that are and it might not be specifically based on pilot performance, though that certainly could be used as a justification. They just did not fit the corporate image.
What I was trying to communicate with flyboysgirl is that even though we might truly and badly wish for something it might not be the best for us. It was not meant to cast dispersions on anyone. If SWA did not feel that he would have been a good match for the company then maybe this is a good thing. When outwardly negative things happen to us we have to remember that there might be some positive aspects to it even though it might not seem that way at the time.
Do I hold anything against anyone that is happy at SWA? Certainly not. I just don't think that it would be my cup of tea.
I went into the interview positive and upbeat. Never was heard a discouraging word from my lips. I was sincere and forthcoming. I looked back on the experience very objectively and critical of myself (which pilot isn't?) and knew without a doubt that I did nothing wrong and put my best foot forward. After all that they still did not want me. Twice is enough for me, There is nothing at this point in time that I can do that is going to make them want to hire me.
Back before 9/11 and the decline of the economy no one would bat an eyelid if someone left WN to go somewhere else. We all have to find what works for us. Things will hopefully open up again and it will all go back to the way it was.
For example, I was jumpseating on a UA flight and talked to the Second Officer on the flight. He had only been with UA for less than a year. Prior to that he worked at UPS! I was shocked to hear that . I asked him why did he leave UPS when he was there for 3-5 years? His answer was that he hated it there. It wasn't the late hours or any other factors, he just hated the environment. Many people move around the majors in an effort to find the right "fit". In short what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.
I hold no anomisty to WN at this time. After my interview, I had numerous indications that it was not going to work out. I am a very keen observer of people and their behavior. You have to pay attention to the signs. Being a woman in aviation you have to do this to effectively work with flightcrewmembers that would rather not have you there at all and are immensely prejudice in their opinions of women in aviation. Yes, discrimination is still very much alive and well in this industry. I wonder how many men have been rejected just on the basis that they are male. Oh and just to let you all know, I carry my own and I have not been looking for some special privledges or opportunities.
Was I depressed about the rejection letter? Slightly. Got over it and will continue looking for work. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the torpedoes and full speed ahead!
Sorry for the rant and the spelling. Just got back from a trip and I am a bit tired.
Yes I did bring up to the interviewer the problem with the three year old app. He said that "It didn't matter". Well, during those three years I amassed a fair amount of jet experience and other job experience that I would have thought to be relevant.
I have heard of "probies" a while ago on one of the incantations of this board actually and confirmed the existence of the phrase with some SWA people.
I am not trying to say that a strong prevalence of people are washed out of SWA. I am trying to say there are some that are and it might not be specifically based on pilot performance, though that certainly could be used as a justification. They just did not fit the corporate image.
What I was trying to communicate with flyboysgirl is that even though we might truly and badly wish for something it might not be the best for us. It was not meant to cast dispersions on anyone. If SWA did not feel that he would have been a good match for the company then maybe this is a good thing. When outwardly negative things happen to us we have to remember that there might be some positive aspects to it even though it might not seem that way at the time.
Do I hold anything against anyone that is happy at SWA? Certainly not. I just don't think that it would be my cup of tea.
I went into the interview positive and upbeat. Never was heard a discouraging word from my lips. I was sincere and forthcoming. I looked back on the experience very objectively and critical of myself (which pilot isn't?) and knew without a doubt that I did nothing wrong and put my best foot forward. After all that they still did not want me. Twice is enough for me, There is nothing at this point in time that I can do that is going to make them want to hire me.
Back before 9/11 and the decline of the economy no one would bat an eyelid if someone left WN to go somewhere else. We all have to find what works for us. Things will hopefully open up again and it will all go back to the way it was.
For example, I was jumpseating on a UA flight and talked to the Second Officer on the flight. He had only been with UA for less than a year. Prior to that he worked at UPS! I was shocked to hear that . I asked him why did he leave UPS when he was there for 3-5 years? His answer was that he hated it there. It wasn't the late hours or any other factors, he just hated the environment. Many people move around the majors in an effort to find the right "fit". In short what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.
I hold no anomisty to WN at this time. After my interview, I had numerous indications that it was not going to work out. I am a very keen observer of people and their behavior. You have to pay attention to the signs. Being a woman in aviation you have to do this to effectively work with flightcrewmembers that would rather not have you there at all and are immensely prejudice in their opinions of women in aviation. Yes, discrimination is still very much alive and well in this industry. I wonder how many men have been rejected just on the basis that they are male. Oh and just to let you all know, I carry my own and I have not been looking for some special privledges or opportunities.
Was I depressed about the rejection letter? Slightly. Got over it and will continue looking for work. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the torpedoes and full speed ahead!
Sorry for the rant and the spelling. Just got back from a trip and I am a bit tired.
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 53
whew!
Did I behave badly?
I want to let you know, it is not so much that you expressed the vent so boldly, but in a sad but true way, it sounded too much like how the beau took it!!
Hard to push so hard for something and have it collapse. Hard to second guess the system. Hard to work and want so hard and just end up where you started and REALLY tired.
In a teeny way, there may be some truth to some of what you implied. It is hard to imagine it all being such a wonderful place. From out here it doesn't even sound like work!
Once the bubble pops, there will be a real world under there. BEING there is not what makes the happiness. You are right, I did not know the situation and everyone has raw nerve ends. Like Canine said, hard being shot by your best girl!
BUT everyone has probationary periods. They come with the territory. Although they outlawed hazing, it is a rite of passage. Not like a deal where you tiptoe around in fear of having to payback your training costs for a year or two. Just a way of giving you a tighter look over until you earn their familiarity. HEY who said dysfunctional families are all that bad? Families is families. Just that all that smiling does look really nice from out here.
I am glad you are still flying. I am glad you are still trying. Sorry I got snappy too.
I am going to encourage him to keep whatever job he gets for a very long time, and IF things are good, then try SWA. It is so much easier to just want to improve the status than be down here where we are, dare I say a bit desperate.
I point out that HE is not crying, just grumbling and doubting. I am the one searching the boards fearing the next disappointment. Maybe if he sits down long enough, some day I will teach him to surf! HE can be doing this and I can watch tv!You missed my post about whether people make it to the third try! Many come back for the abuse ONE MORE TIME and did not regret it. Between now and then we have a lot of life yet to live.
stay up there....
Did I behave badly?
I want to let you know, it is not so much that you expressed the vent so boldly, but in a sad but true way, it sounded too much like how the beau took it!!
Hard to push so hard for something and have it collapse. Hard to second guess the system. Hard to work and want so hard and just end up where you started and REALLY tired.
In a teeny way, there may be some truth to some of what you implied. It is hard to imagine it all being such a wonderful place. From out here it doesn't even sound like work!
Once the bubble pops, there will be a real world under there. BEING there is not what makes the happiness. You are right, I did not know the situation and everyone has raw nerve ends. Like Canine said, hard being shot by your best girl!
BUT everyone has probationary periods. They come with the territory. Although they outlawed hazing, it is a rite of passage. Not like a deal where you tiptoe around in fear of having to payback your training costs for a year or two. Just a way of giving you a tighter look over until you earn their familiarity. HEY who said dysfunctional families are all that bad? Families is families. Just that all that smiling does look really nice from out here.
I am glad you are still flying. I am glad you are still trying. Sorry I got snappy too.
I am going to encourage him to keep whatever job he gets for a very long time, and IF things are good, then try SWA. It is so much easier to just want to improve the status than be down here where we are, dare I say a bit desperate.
I point out that HE is not crying, just grumbling and doubting. I am the one searching the boards fearing the next disappointment. Maybe if he sits down long enough, some day I will teach him to surf! HE can be doing this and I can watch tv!You missed my post about whether people make it to the third try! Many come back for the abuse ONE MORE TIME and did not regret it. Between now and then we have a lot of life yet to live.
stay up there....
Badda BING
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 21
letter came
Well ladies and gents, the waiting is over for me. I too will show myself to the door. I recieved the dreaded letter this past Wednesday. I am just now able to collect my thoughts enough to share the news. I knew if I got on the computer the day I recieved the letter, in my disappointment I might have said a lot of things that I did not truly believe. After moping around for 3 days I think I am up to the task.
Here are my stats:
-USAF
-32 years old
-3000+ hours, 1500+ turbine PIC, 1200+ Instructor/Evaluator hours
-Types: 737 (Higher Power), B707, BE400
-Master's degree in Aeronautical Science (ERAU)
-Contacts called
-Called for Drug test
-a lot of great SWA friends who took the time to help me get a job
Am I disappointed? Absolutely - I just knew SWA was where I would hang my hat for the next 28 years.
My next step? I have no idea
One thing I do know is that during this process I became intimately familiar with the operations and people of SWA. Without a doubt it is one of the finest organizations I have ever come to know. Although I feel they made a mistake in not hiring me, I know that sometimes things are not meant to be at a particular time.
I also know that exactly two years from the date I sent my profile form in I will be sending in another one. Hopefully I will have better luck the next time. Southwest Airlines is worth waiting for!!!
Having read some of the above posts I realize that many people are very upset with SWA. Not knowing your particular situations I can't say that I can totally relate, but I do know that I have had a couple of major disappointments in my life (this letter being just one of them). I have spent the last three days asking myself "why do these things happen to me when others seem to have soloed under a lucky star?" The only answer I came up with is that just as those other disappointments ending up working out- so too will this!! SW Airlines is still my number one choice to fly for and I plan to do so someday (besides my wife would beat me up if I allowed my $8000 type rating to be for nothing - think of the shopping spree she could have had!!).
I hope others get as much out of what I have just said as I did in thinking about it. Say, does anyone have a good number for that truck driving school!!
Cheers,
Well ladies and gents, the waiting is over for me. I too will show myself to the door. I recieved the dreaded letter this past Wednesday. I am just now able to collect my thoughts enough to share the news. I knew if I got on the computer the day I recieved the letter, in my disappointment I might have said a lot of things that I did not truly believe. After moping around for 3 days I think I am up to the task.
Here are my stats:
-USAF
-32 years old
-3000+ hours, 1500+ turbine PIC, 1200+ Instructor/Evaluator hours
-Types: 737 (Higher Power), B707, BE400
-Master's degree in Aeronautical Science (ERAU)
-Contacts called
-Called for Drug test
-a lot of great SWA friends who took the time to help me get a job
Am I disappointed? Absolutely - I just knew SWA was where I would hang my hat for the next 28 years.
My next step? I have no idea
One thing I do know is that during this process I became intimately familiar with the operations and people of SWA. Without a doubt it is one of the finest organizations I have ever come to know. Although I feel they made a mistake in not hiring me, I know that sometimes things are not meant to be at a particular time.
I also know that exactly two years from the date I sent my profile form in I will be sending in another one. Hopefully I will have better luck the next time. Southwest Airlines is worth waiting for!!!
Having read some of the above posts I realize that many people are very upset with SWA. Not knowing your particular situations I can't say that I can totally relate, but I do know that I have had a couple of major disappointments in my life (this letter being just one of them). I have spent the last three days asking myself "why do these things happen to me when others seem to have soloed under a lucky star?" The only answer I came up with is that just as those other disappointments ending up working out- so too will this!! SW Airlines is still my number one choice to fly for and I plan to do so someday (besides my wife would beat me up if I allowed my $8000 type rating to be for nothing - think of the shopping spree she could have had!!).
I hope others get as much out of what I have just said as I did in thinking about it. Say, does anyone have a good number for that truck driving school!!
Cheers,
Sorry about your news Jake
Jake
Very sorry about your news, but looking forward to seeing you when you re-apply. Never give up the dream, you DO have that star, they just haven't spotted it yet, give them another try.
My best to you and your career, see you at SWA in the very near future,
MO
Jake
Very sorry about your news, but looking forward to seeing you when you re-apply. Never give up the dream, you DO have that star, they just haven't spotted it yet, give them another try.
My best to you and your career, see you at SWA in the very near future,
MO
Badda BING
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 21
Today was another big day for many......
I received my letter today, postmarked Feb 25
Am I disappointed, Absolutely!
My Stats:
Age 35
737 Type, (Did not purchase through training program)
727 Type
RJ Type
Total 6700
Total Turbine PIC 3500
BS of Aeronautics
Graduated Magna Cum Laude
Alpha Chi National Honor Society
Alpha Eta Rho
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
No drug test
Wore patriotic heart tie during interview
Read “NUTS”, understand SWA culture
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
Never Failed a checkride
No Military background
Sent Post Interview FOLLOW-UP LETTER to People Dept./Lindsey
A few questions and concerns from the process, anyone please provide insight:
SWA is frugal, but why spare the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?
I believe it may be helpful for the DB to meet a candidate in person. The DB met 4 weeks after my successful interview.
Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.
Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.
Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?
If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?
I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?
Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?
I can honestly say the whole process is gut wrenching, whether or not a candidate is selected. For those selected, it was well worth the effort. I still do believe that SWA is a great place to work, and the above is only my observation. It’s not meant to be abusive in any way.
I was told during the interview that the rumor was, “that SWA is the only game in town right now, and they are only hiring ROCK STARS”
I don’t know if I will reapply in two years, also considering the loss of many seniority numbers.
Please shed some light!
SWA lost a very invaluable person!
Good Luck to all, and I wish you every success in your flying career,
Tony
I received my letter today, postmarked Feb 25
Am I disappointed, Absolutely!
My Stats:
Age 35
737 Type, (Did not purchase through training program)
727 Type
RJ Type
Total 6700
Total Turbine PIC 3500
BS of Aeronautics
Graduated Magna Cum Laude
Alpha Chi National Honor Society
Alpha Eta Rho
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
No drug test
Wore patriotic heart tie during interview
Read “NUTS”, understand SWA culture
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
Never Failed a checkride
No Military background
Sent Post Interview FOLLOW-UP LETTER to People Dept./Lindsey
A few questions and concerns from the process, anyone please provide insight:
SWA is frugal, but why spare the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?
I believe it may be helpful for the DB to meet a candidate in person. The DB met 4 weeks after my successful interview.
Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.
Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.
Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?
If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?
I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?
Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?
I can honestly say the whole process is gut wrenching, whether or not a candidate is selected. For those selected, it was well worth the effort. I still do believe that SWA is a great place to work, and the above is only my observation. It’s not meant to be abusive in any way.
I was told during the interview that the rumor was, “that SWA is the only game in town right now, and they are only hiring ROCK STARS”
I don’t know if I will reapply in two years, also considering the loss of many seniority numbers.
Please shed some light!
SWA lost a very invaluable person!
Good Luck to all, and I wish you every success in your flying career,
Tony
Last edited:
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 53
I want to thank all you guys. (and gal)
THE MOST AMAZING THING happened!
I read a lot of your posts to my guy (who, by the way is not a rock star... ask the neighbors!) and he lightened!! Just like a load was lifted.
All of you out there reading letters as individuals are sort of a neat little community of folks in the same boat. And you are all sharing the paddle. I feel like it is good for a few of you to put it out there, and the really amazing thing is how good it is to hear it too.
I read all the male/female communications books and tho it may not be as good as meeting in a bar and cursing them out together, it MAY be better this way. Easier to be honest.
Ok, get back to whatever you are all doing this Saturday night!
THE MOST AMAZING THING happened!
I read a lot of your posts to my guy (who, by the way is not a rock star... ask the neighbors!) and he lightened!! Just like a load was lifted.
All of you out there reading letters as individuals are sort of a neat little community of folks in the same boat. And you are all sharing the paddle. I feel like it is good for a few of you to put it out there, and the really amazing thing is how good it is to hear it too.
I read all the male/female communications books and tho it may not be as good as meeting in a bar and cursing them out together, it MAY be better this way. Easier to be honest.
Ok, get back to whatever you are all doing this Saturday night!
Badda BING
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 21
DalLeardriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2002
- Posts
- 27
I agree!
I agree with Badda BING.
Why go through the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?
Here are my stats. I even had a cousin in the Flight Operations Dept. as well.
Age 26
no 737 Type
Lr-Jet Type
Total 3600
Total Turbine PIC 1300
BS of Aeronautics
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
A buddy did my back ground check
took a drug test
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
No Military background
Letter was postmarked Feb. 25th and was mailed to Dallas.
I will reapply in two years but it is just hard not only for me but my whole family. My wife and kids were on this crazy ride as well.
DalLeardriver
I agree with Badda BING.
Why go through the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?
Here are my stats. I even had a cousin in the Flight Operations Dept. as well.
Age 26
no 737 Type
Lr-Jet Type
Total 3600
Total Turbine PIC 1300
BS of Aeronautics
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
A buddy did my back ground check
took a drug test
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
No Military background
Letter was postmarked Feb. 25th and was mailed to Dallas.
I will reapply in two years but it is just hard not only for me but my whole family. My wife and kids were on this crazy ride as well.
DalLeardriver
RichardFitzwell
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 347
DalLeardriver and flyboysgal
For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be right now. I know, from experience, how you feel. The fact that you did not succeed at the interview probably hurts more than not getting the job. I have felt the same way but as I look back, it was always for the best. Something better will come along -- trust me.
R.F.
For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be right now. I know, from experience, how you feel. The fact that you did not succeed at the interview probably hurts more than not getting the job. I have felt the same way but as I look back, it was always for the best. Something better will come along -- trust me.
R.F.
badda-bing answers (mine, not SWAs!)
bb,
here goes with a caveat, these are my opinions only. Take them for the .02 cents their worth.
> Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.
Not a bad idea. Would save SWA some money with mailings but in this case I don't believe SWA would feel the savings would offset the "impersonal" tone this would set. The folks in the PD are genuinely distressed when folks don't get picked up. Leaving such a post on a web site makes it even tougher but I understand the issue of the delay & waiting for the answer in the mail or phone. I will pass on the thought though. Additionally, some folks are sent a letter that says they didn't make the cut but are encouraged to re-apply again & go through the process. The 2 yr rule doesn't apply. It doesn't apply to many but for folks who are right on the edge from the DB standpoint, this procedure allows someone who is right on the edge to reapply & have the company take another look at them much quicker. Believe it or not, some folks don't take the opportunity to reapply & miss out on a golden opportunity to get hired the 2nd time around.
>Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.
Background checks are a necessary evil to confirm what is on a resume is accurate. What other way could an airline determine the accuracy of the credentials of a pilot? Obviously any employers other than your current ones aren't a problem but SWA must ensure future candidates are who they say they are. I'm sure these type of calls are standard in the industry & are done in a way that may not let on to who is asking for the info. For example, SWA does have some outside companies do some of their background checks to allow for objective collective of information & to keep from having their name associated with a request which might raise suspicions from a company.
>Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?
Several reasons.
1. More hours/better resume. SWA views PIC time as important. We hire Capts, not FOs. Doesn't mean that if you have min PIC hours you won't get hired (many do) but when it comes down to the nut-cutting, quality of time is important.
2. Better letters of LOR; more folks from inside the company vs. the last time.
3. Folks get type the 2nd time around. SWA can see if you interviewed the first time & if nothing has changed other than hours the question can be asked of the applicant " what is he/she doing different than last time to show us he/she is interested in SWA?" A "type" shows that.
4. Better interview technique. If you only flew an ILS every 2 years how good would you be? If you only interview every 2 years how good can you expect to be? I'm not saying you have to hire interview prep folks to be successful but if you know what the process is like after 1 time it makes sense to me one would make every effort to learn from that & be better prepared the next time, i.e. review the questions with good answers, improved communication skills/interview skills, comfortable talking about yourself
>If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?
Not everyone has to but the vast majority do (see my answer above). The 2 year wait allows an individual & SWA time away from each other to get a fresh look at each other. I would view the current situation as a stronger reason to wait more than 2 years but in fact regardless of what the hiring pool has been, the 2 yr rule was in effect. Prior to 911 the pool of applicants was much smaller thereby justifying a shorter wait period, SWA didn't though.
I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?
> Two ways. One official. Call the PD & ask Jenn. You'll get generic answers such as "interview was just OK", "stronger flying background". If you'd like more info/detail, you could ask them if you could speak to one of the DB reps themselves. They may have that individual contact you individually. I would stress the fact you really want to learn from the process & plan on re-applying at the 2 year point. For that reason you really want to work on whatever it takes to do better the next time. Be aware that certain legal issues will preclude them from giving too much detail over the phone. Additionally, if you have any folks from within SWA that recommended you they maybe able to find out more details.
Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?
I don't personally know of any but I'm confident we have had them in the past & probably had them on this DB. If you speaking in terms of furloughed capts my answer would still be the same. As a side note on this particular note of furloughed pilots I will make this comment. I've had several folks ask me if a letter of resignation to one's previous employer (seniority number) is appropriate to give to SWA. One can debate the pros & cons for a long time. I don't know if SWA is requiring it or is even interested in it. However, if it was me I'd do it to simply demonstrate my desire to come to SWA. For those who disagree, pls don't pummel me too bad. I know it is easy for me to sit here with a secure job & say that. Yes it is, but I've had folks asked my opinion & I've given it. I'm sure there are other answers just as good.
Hope that helps,
cheers & God Bless
bb,
here goes with a caveat, these are my opinions only. Take them for the .02 cents their worth.
> Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.
Not a bad idea. Would save SWA some money with mailings but in this case I don't believe SWA would feel the savings would offset the "impersonal" tone this would set. The folks in the PD are genuinely distressed when folks don't get picked up. Leaving such a post on a web site makes it even tougher but I understand the issue of the delay & waiting for the answer in the mail or phone. I will pass on the thought though. Additionally, some folks are sent a letter that says they didn't make the cut but are encouraged to re-apply again & go through the process. The 2 yr rule doesn't apply. It doesn't apply to many but for folks who are right on the edge from the DB standpoint, this procedure allows someone who is right on the edge to reapply & have the company take another look at them much quicker. Believe it or not, some folks don't take the opportunity to reapply & miss out on a golden opportunity to get hired the 2nd time around.
>Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.
Background checks are a necessary evil to confirm what is on a resume is accurate. What other way could an airline determine the accuracy of the credentials of a pilot? Obviously any employers other than your current ones aren't a problem but SWA must ensure future candidates are who they say they are. I'm sure these type of calls are standard in the industry & are done in a way that may not let on to who is asking for the info. For example, SWA does have some outside companies do some of their background checks to allow for objective collective of information & to keep from having their name associated with a request which might raise suspicions from a company.
>Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?
Several reasons.
1. More hours/better resume. SWA views PIC time as important. We hire Capts, not FOs. Doesn't mean that if you have min PIC hours you won't get hired (many do) but when it comes down to the nut-cutting, quality of time is important.
2. Better letters of LOR; more folks from inside the company vs. the last time.
3. Folks get type the 2nd time around. SWA can see if you interviewed the first time & if nothing has changed other than hours the question can be asked of the applicant " what is he/she doing different than last time to show us he/she is interested in SWA?" A "type" shows that.
4. Better interview technique. If you only flew an ILS every 2 years how good would you be? If you only interview every 2 years how good can you expect to be? I'm not saying you have to hire interview prep folks to be successful but if you know what the process is like after 1 time it makes sense to me one would make every effort to learn from that & be better prepared the next time, i.e. review the questions with good answers, improved communication skills/interview skills, comfortable talking about yourself
>If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?
Not everyone has to but the vast majority do (see my answer above). The 2 year wait allows an individual & SWA time away from each other to get a fresh look at each other. I would view the current situation as a stronger reason to wait more than 2 years but in fact regardless of what the hiring pool has been, the 2 yr rule was in effect. Prior to 911 the pool of applicants was much smaller thereby justifying a shorter wait period, SWA didn't though.
I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?
> Two ways. One official. Call the PD & ask Jenn. You'll get generic answers such as "interview was just OK", "stronger flying background". If you'd like more info/detail, you could ask them if you could speak to one of the DB reps themselves. They may have that individual contact you individually. I would stress the fact you really want to learn from the process & plan on re-applying at the 2 year point. For that reason you really want to work on whatever it takes to do better the next time. Be aware that certain legal issues will preclude them from giving too much detail over the phone. Additionally, if you have any folks from within SWA that recommended you they maybe able to find out more details.
Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?
I don't personally know of any but I'm confident we have had them in the past & probably had them on this DB. If you speaking in terms of furloughed capts my answer would still be the same. As a side note on this particular note of furloughed pilots I will make this comment. I've had several folks ask me if a letter of resignation to one's previous employer (seniority number) is appropriate to give to SWA. One can debate the pros & cons for a long time. I don't know if SWA is requiring it or is even interested in it. However, if it was me I'd do it to simply demonstrate my desire to come to SWA. For those who disagree, pls don't pummel me too bad. I know it is easy for me to sit here with a secure job & say that. Yes it is, but I've had folks asked my opinion & I've given it. I'm sure there are other answers just as good.
Hope that helps,
cheers & God Bless
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