Cry for SWA? I think not. It was my second interview as well.
There were occurences and incidents during my interview that made it very clear that they had no interest in me and no intention of hiring me. The biggest thing was using my three year old application information in the interview instead of using the contemporary version that I sent to them 3 weeks in advance. I have no idea why they even bothered calling me in unless they think that this makes them so wonderful to work for because they are so nice to everyone! I don't need their duplicitious attitude.
That was just one thing, there were others as well.
There will be no third time for me.
I had enough of their phoney baloney, and insincerity.
It's time to pick yourselves up and get back on the horse. Who knows, If your mate was hired by them he might find their unctuous attitude intolerable. Remember also that SWA makes a very big deal of the probationary period. They even go as far as defining people as "probies". It is not that unusual for people to be drummed out during that time. Of course no one is going to want to admit to that. If your mate feels bad about not getting picked up by SWA imagine how he would feel if he didn't make through the first year. You have to fit their little "family" perfectly or your going to have problems.
Yeah I know this is from the outside looking in. I have done a lot of research on this and talked to many SWA people about it. I am being as objective as I can. I am sure that the company works well for many of the people there, if you fit their ideals. All I am trying to say is that if they did not select your mate it may be for the best. Remember the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."
I trust your guy was working all along for other opportunities. Up until ten minutes before I got the call from JM I was on the phone trying to break down doors for interviews with Frontier, ATA and Spirit.
Opportunities are breaking out slowly but surely. Just have 'em keep at it.
I was furloughed 12 Sep 01 and have been out of work since then. I've had six flying position interviews and was shot down by four companies... can't explain why. Like you said in one of your previous post; it's their game, their rules, they can do what they want and hire whom they please.
I guess it's just the way our minds operate; we analyze the experience (pro/con), try to learn something from the whole thing, then file it away and forget about it, unitl we need to retrieve for some stated purose.
High school, college, OCS, flight school, flying in the fleet, being promoted, medals/awards, 20 successful military/flying years, retired, got job offers, captain with a 121 carrier...life was good.
Then 9/11. Whoa! Where's that company the pays my salary? Hey, no problem I'll just get another job.
Furloughs? Everyone? Naw, EJA is hiring, love those Midway guys. Hey I'll interview there.
GUT SHOT! .
Hey, what's that? Rejection, failure, never expereinced that before (except for SWA and lots of females!). NO problem, pick myself up off the floor, stuff my guts back in my stomach and move on.
AirTran? Didn't furlough? Hiring? Loves those Midway guys! Beat down that door, get that interview.
BOOM! ...Horizontal butt stroke to cranium!
Hey, that hurts, why you'd do that? I'm a great guy, you hired that whining turd who was there the same day, why not me?
Alright, pick yourself back up.... Corporate job, they're hiring?
And it goes on and on and on.
Just continue to be there to help clean up the mess and get him back on his feet. It doesn't take us long and we can do it by ourselves, but it is nice to have you there!
Great attitude! One has to keep plugging along regardless of how dim things get. Well done. Look forward to seeing you at the new guy party this spring or summer.
To correct a few items you mentioned in your post.
First of all if the info they were using was 3 years old my apologies. With the internet the way it is, the difficulty in verifying what you say is true is difficult. I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening but there is always a first time. Again, my apologies, no excuses. Just curious, did you point this out to anyone that the info wasn't current? I'm confident that if you had, the interviewers would have provided that feedback to the folks who had screwed up & would try not to have that happen again. Additionally, most folks when they come to the interview have a copy of everything they have sent to the company, including resume. Having this info would have provided them with all they need to know anyway. BTW, the interviewers ONLY have access to your resume, nothing more. No background info, no LORs, nothing. This allows the interviewers to have as uncluttered a view of you as possible with no outside influences other than YOUR OWN resume. If the resume they had was old, whip out the new one & say "um, I think this one is more current, pls use this one, thanks."
In terms of probation. I've never heard the term "probies" before. I've never been at another major so don't have anything to compare it to but I thought everyone treated me great while on probation & mine wasn't a flawless probation!! I've heard of only 1 or 2 folks not making it through probation & only 1 person not making it through IOE over the last 2-3 yrs. If you have other data then I'll stand corrected. Maybe the folks you have spoken too didn't have my experience, if so then I understand your comments. However, generally I've not heard of many problems that weren't overcome by perserverance & effort + attitude.
Your comments about attitude are correct. We are looking for folks who have a similar attitude to the interviewers, current employees of the company. Diversity in culture, race, religion are all fine. Attitude diversity is not something most companies desire. EVERY COMPANY would like to have positive, upbeat, take charge employees. However, most settle for less & compromise that aspect of a person's personality for the skills they bring to the table. SWA doesn't & it has paid off for them. SWA has always said, we hire for attitude...we can train the folks to do any job we have. Lets face it, there are a ton of pilots out there, as are computer folks, schedulers, marketing types. What can't be taught or instilled in folks is how you approach your job & fellow workers. As one of our senior executives says, "YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN HAPPINESS." The company isn't, your spouse isn't, your kids aren't, you are. So if one doesn't display an attitude in the 3 x 45 minute sessions that encompanses the things I've spoken about above, you won't get hired. Simple as that. However, nothing prevents someone from coming back again if they so desire. No value judgement about the person. Not all of my friends that I have or people I like would do well at SWA, doesn't mean they are bad folks, just different. They're still my friends.
Sorry the experience didn't turn out well for you but condemming the company for what type of people it will hire would be like telling YOU what type of friends you should have. Any company should be allowed to hire the type of folks THEY feel will be the best for their company. Otherwise, let anyone off the street walkup & get a job. While the process may seem harsh to those turned down, it is a process, LEGAL, reasonable & most importantly consistent IMHO.
I'm sure you are a great person with great skills & will do well somewhere else. IMHO, if one walks away from the experience bitter I believe it says more about the individual than it does the company. As evidence by the number of folks who come back 2, 3, 4 times and are eventually hired. Some are never hired. Doesn't mean they are dirt bags, just not the type folks SWA is looking for.
Good luck, God Bless in your quest for a flying job.
Sorry about the rambling. I don't want to get into a big battle of philosophy on this web site about this subject. It is worth rambling about but not on this thread. My apologies to all for digressing slightly.
It's Friday and still waiting for notification from SWA.
I do spend a lot of time on the computer, so hopefully the line was busy?
Same vibes as many:
Interview went very well,
Background check completed,
They Spoke with Chief Pilot for an hour; good recommendation,
They spoke with several SWA pilots, who provided good recommendations,
Pilot doing background check stated I did well with the interview,
Had type before applying.
Either way, I will post my results, background, and opinion of the process.
Getting turned down hurts, but it's funny how things turn out in the end.
I'm lucky to have a backup, but was just tryng to make a better career.
Never give up and keep the positive attitude......
flyboysgal I am sorry to hear the news. I have been reading this form because of the DB and feel like I have been with ya'll every time you go to the mail box. I talked to a friend who also recieved a letter yesterday. I have been trying to stay busy flying and trying not to think about the mail either. Infact, LOL, I send my wife to get it when I am home.
I am try to figure out this whole process. I live here in the Dallas area and I would think that if bad news was mailed out that I would be the first one to get hit. Do they send out the letters the same date? My friend said that his was dated the 21st and post marked the 22nd.
Chase maybe you can shed some light on this process.
I think maybe they call people according to the last 2 digits of the SS #. My last digits are 97 (no call, no letter yet) and a close friend of mine said that he was called 2 whole weeks after the DB. His last 2 #'s are 99. Am I still in the running? This waiting is killing me.
I'm sure they have a method but I'm not aware of it. Maybe SS#, who knows. The bottom line is if you haven't gotten a letter yet saying "no thanks", you're still in the running. As I advise folks, wait exactly 2 weeks from the DB (7 Mar), call on 8 March to the PD & ask for some intel. They'll either give you the good news or bad news at that time over the phone (I believe). The purpose isn't to make it painful but when you have 250+ folks not everyone is notified in the most expeditious manner sometimes. Its not a perfect world. I know the girls in there are working as hard as they can to get things out quickly. Just continue to hang (in there) for another week. Best of luck.
It is just nice to hear you are on OUR side.
ALL of us. Says a lot for a company that is so welcoming to the guys who want in.
Thanks for your posts.
Keep us in your thoughts.... I will contact you again in a couple of years.
he he he
This is where I bid my good-by and show my self to the door. My wife came in with the letter. Not good. So live goes on and I will try again in one and half years. SWA is still where I want to be. No bitterness here just thankfull for the experience.
It is like when you ask the girl you have a crush on to the prom and she guns you down. I have been in love with Southwest for a long time. I have never even considered another major never mind applied anywhere else. It has never been about a job, always the mission. I just want to smash bags on Thanksgiving Eve and get everyone to Grandma's for Christmas and do my small part to keep the fares low for everyone. I am a good pilot and a good person and I will always wonder if I failed to make that come across in the interview or if the competition was just too tough in this environment. I will be back in a year or so for round two and I may have more hours and better stories and Bob Beeks interview technique but really I will be the same person I am right now.
As for some funny or ironic stories: I was waiting for my letter this week and not only did it show up today, but someone else's letter was stuck to it. Just one of the many things that can happen that don't happen too often. If it is yours, I will mail it out on Monday. Should be getting to you around Wednesday or Thursday. Friday at the latest. It will not have the Dallas postmark. Sorry. It was hard getting my own but to see that was like a punch in the stomach. I do not know why that upset me more but it sure did. Maybe just knowing that someone is out there waiting and wondering and hoping.
Some one wrote that SWA called and talked to their Chief Pilot for an hour. I stopped by my CP's office today and he asked, "You are Mr.........?" This despite the fact that unsolicited recommendations for doing an exceptional job have been crossing his desk at about one a week from every department in the company. I can only wonder what my background check went like.
Anyhow.... Congratulations to those that made it. You obviously worked hard to get where you are. I am truly happy for you.
For those that didn't... Keep up the hard work. Dreams do come true. I am sure that flying was just a dream at one point. Keep in touch. Anything I can do to help you find a job or get to SWA eventually I will do.
For me... I will put the Nuts book away for a few months and delete the Southwest screen saver for a while. I will get the type this summer when I can put my full effort into it. I will keep looking for a new job because I may not be going to Harvard but I am d@mn sure going to college!
I think the hour-long phone call you mentioned was to a reference, not a former employer. No chief pilot or other former employer is going to spend an hour or even five minutes for that matter on the phone if they want to stay out of legal hot water. "Yes, so and so was employed here as a pilot from this date to this date. Yes, he was a captain for part of that time." End of call. If they say anything more it's time to consult an attorney.
Yes I did bring up to the interviewer the problem with the three year old app. He said that "It didn't matter". Well, during those three years I amassed a fair amount of jet experience and other job experience that I would have thought to be relevant.
I have heard of "probies" a while ago on one of the incantations of this board actually and confirmed the existence of the phrase with some SWA people.
I am not trying to say that a strong prevalence of people are washed out of SWA. I am trying to say there are some that are and it might not be specifically based on pilot performance, though that certainly could be used as a justification. They just did not fit the corporate image.
What I was trying to communicate with flyboysgirl is that even though we might truly and badly wish for something it might not be the best for us. It was not meant to cast dispersions on anyone. If SWA did not feel that he would have been a good match for the company then maybe this is a good thing. When outwardly negative things happen to us we have to remember that there might be some positive aspects to it even though it might not seem that way at the time.
Do I hold anything against anyone that is happy at SWA? Certainly not. I just don't think that it would be my cup of tea.
I went into the interview positive and upbeat. Never was heard a discouraging word from my lips. I was sincere and forthcoming. I looked back on the experience very objectively and critical of myself (which pilot isn't?) and knew without a doubt that I did nothing wrong and put my best foot forward. After all that they still did not want me. Twice is enough for me, There is nothing at this point in time that I can do that is going to make them want to hire me.
Back before 9/11 and the decline of the economy no one would bat an eyelid if someone left WN to go somewhere else. We all have to find what works for us. Things will hopefully open up again and it will all go back to the way it was.
For example, I was jumpseating on a UA flight and talked to the Second Officer on the flight. He had only been with UA for less than a year. Prior to that he worked at UPS! I was shocked to hear that . I asked him why did he leave UPS when he was there for 3-5 years? His answer was that he hated it there. It wasn't the late hours or any other factors, he just hated the environment. Many people move around the majors in an effort to find the right "fit". In short what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.
I hold no anomisty to WN at this time. After my interview, I had numerous indications that it was not going to work out. I am a very keen observer of people and their behavior. You have to pay attention to the signs. Being a woman in aviation you have to do this to effectively work with flightcrewmembers that would rather not have you there at all and are immensely prejudice in their opinions of women in aviation. Yes, discrimination is still very much alive and well in this industry. I wonder how many men have been rejected just on the basis that they are male. Oh and just to let you all know, I carry my own and I have not been looking for some special privledges or opportunities.
Was I depressed about the rejection letter? Slightly. Got over it and will continue looking for work. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the torpedoes and full speed ahead!
Sorry for the rant and the spelling. Just got back from a trip and I am a bit tired.