mail came

[flyboysgal]

whew!

Did I behave badly?
I want to let you know, it is not so much that you expressed the vent so boldly, but in a sad but true way, it sounded too much like how the beau took it!!

Hard to push so hard for something and have it collapse. Hard to second guess the system. Hard to work and want so hard and just end up where you started and REALLY tired.

In a teeny way, there may be some truth to some of what you implied. It is hard to imagine it all being such a wonderful place. From out here it doesn't even sound like work!
Once the bubble pops, there will be a real world under there. BEING there is not what makes the happiness. You are right, I did not know the situation and everyone has raw nerve ends. Like Canine said, hard being shot by your best girl!

BUT everyone has probationary periods. They come with the territory. Although they outlawed hazing, it is a rite of passage. Not like a deal where you tiptoe around in fear of having to payback your training costs for a year or two. Just a way of giving you a tighter look over until you earn their familiarity. HEY who said dysfunctional families are all that bad? Families is families. Just that all that smiling does look really nice from out here.

I am glad you are still flying. I am glad you are still trying. Sorry I got snappy too.

I am going to encourage him to keep whatever job he gets for a very long time, and IF things are good, then try SWA. It is so much easier to just want to improve the status than be down here where we are, dare I say a bit desperate.

I point out that HE is not crying, just grumbling and doubting. I am the one searching the boards fearing the next disappointment. Maybe if he sits down long enough, some day I will teach him to surf! HE can be doing this and I can watch tv!You missed my post about whether people make it to the third try! Many come back for the abuse ONE MORE TIME and did not regret it. Between now and then we have a lot of life yet to live.

stay up there....

 

[Badda BING]

Where was it going.......

Cargocanine,

I'm waiting impatiently. Please indicate what state the letter was going to.
Thanks,
Bing

 

[Jake]

letter came

Well ladies and gents, the waiting is over for me. I too will show myself to the door. I recieved the dreaded letter this past Wednesday. I am just now able to collect my thoughts enough to share the news. I knew if I got on the computer the day I recieved the letter, in my disappointment I might have said a lot of things that I did not truly believe. After moping around for 3 days I think I am up to the task.

Here are my stats:

-USAF
-32 years old
-3000+ hours, 1500+ turbine PIC, 1200+ Instructor/Evaluator hours
-Types: 737 (Higher Power), B707, BE400
-Master's degree in Aeronautical Science (ERAU)
-Contacts called
-Called for Drug test
-a lot of great SWA friends who took the time to help me get a job

Am I disappointed? Absolutely - I just knew SWA was where I would hang my hat for the next 28 years.

My next step? I have no idea

One thing I do know is that during this process I became intimately familiar with the operations and people of SWA. Without a doubt it is one of the finest organizations I have ever come to know. Although I feel they made a mistake in not hiring me, I know that sometimes things are not meant to be at a particular time.

I also know that exactly two years from the date I sent my profile form in I will be sending in another one. Hopefully I will have better luck the next time. Southwest Airlines is worth waiting for!!!

Having read some of the above posts I realize that many people are very upset with SWA. Not knowing your particular situations I can't say that I can totally relate, but I do know that I have had a couple of major disappointments in my life (this letter being just one of them). I have spent the last three days asking myself "why do these things happen to me when others seem to have soloed under a lucky star?" The only answer I came up with is that just as those other disappointments ending up working out- so too will this!! SW Airlines is still my number one choice to fly for and I plan to do so someday (besides my wife would beat me up if I allowed my $8000 type rating to be for nothing - think of the shopping spree she could have had!!).

I hope others get as much out of what I have just said as I did in thinking about it. Say, does anyone have a good number for that truck driving school!!

Cheers,

 

[EFC-in-5]

Sorry about your news Jake

Jake

Very sorry about your news, but looking forward to seeing you when you re-apply. Never give up the dream, you DO have that star, they just haven't spotted it yet, give them another try.

My best to you and your career, see you at SWA in the very near future,

MO

 

[Badda BING]

Today was another big day for many......

I received my letter today, postmarked Feb 25
Am I disappointed, Absolutely!

My Stats:

Age 35
737 Type, (Did not purchase through training program)
727 Type
RJ Type
Total 6700
Total Turbine PIC 3500
BS of Aeronautics
Graduated Magna Cum Laude
Alpha Chi National Honor Society
Alpha Eta Rho
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
No drug test
Wore patriotic heart tie during interview
Read “NUTS”, understand SWA culture
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
Never Failed a checkride
No Military background
Sent Post Interview FOLLOW-UP LETTER to People Dept./Lindsey

A few questions and concerns from the process, anyone please provide insight:

SWA is frugal, but why spare the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?

I believe it may be helpful for the DB to meet a candidate in person. The DB met 4 weeks after my successful interview.

Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.

Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.

Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?

If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?

I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?

Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?

I can honestly say the whole process is gut wrenching, whether or not a candidate is selected. For those selected, it was well worth the effort. I still do believe that SWA is a great place to work, and the above is only my observation. It’s not meant to be abusive in any way.

I was told during the interview that the rumor was, “that SWA is the only game in town right now, and they are only hiring ROCK STARS”

I don’t know if I will reapply in two years, also considering the loss of many seniority numbers.

Please shed some light!

SWA lost a very invaluable person!

Good Luck to all, and I wish you every success in your flying career,

Tony

 

[flyboysgal]

I want to thank all you guys. (and gal)

THE MOST AMAZING THING happened!
I read a lot of your posts to my guy (who, by the way is not a rock star... ask the neighbors!) and he lightened!! Just like a load was lifted.

All of you out there reading letters as individuals are sort of a neat little community of folks in the same boat. And you are all sharing the paddle. I feel like it is good for a few of you to put it out there, and the really amazing thing is how good it is to hear it too.

I read all the male/female communications books and tho it may not be as good as meeting in a bar and cursing them out together, it MAY be better this way. Easier to be honest.

Ok, get back to whatever you are all doing this Saturday night!

 

[Badda BING]

I'm not a Rock Star either, but a great person who would take the shirt off his back for another in need.
That's me, and good night to all!

Tony

 

[DalLeardriver]

I agree!

I agree with Badda BING.

Why go through the expense to drug test an applicant before the DB, only to send a letter of rejection?

Here are my stats. I even had a cousin in the Flight Operations Dept. as well.

Age 26
no 737 Type
Lr-Jet Type
Total 3600
Total Turbine PIC 1300
BS of Aeronautics
All references/contacts called
Recommendations from several SWA pilots, who indicated I did well during the interview.
A buddy did my back ground check
took a drug test
No violations/incidents/accidents
No disciplinary letters
Perfect Driving Record/No DWI
No Military background

Letter was postmarked Feb. 25th and was mailed to Dallas.

I will reapply in two years but it is just hard not only for me but my whole family. My wife and kids were on this crazy ride as well.

DalLeardriver

 

[RichardFitzwell]

DalLeardriver and flyboysgal

For whatever reason, it wasn't meant to be right now. I know, from experience, how you feel. The fact that you did not succeed at the interview probably hurts more than not getting the job. I have felt the same way but as I look back, it was always for the best. Something better will come along -- trust me.

R.F.

 

[chase]

badda-bing answers (mine, not SWAs!)

bb,

here goes with a caveat, these are my opinions only. Take them for the .02 cents their worth.

> Why not post the successful candidates on a web-page, in a code by the last 4 digits of their social security number? This would provide a quick result after the DB meets and the difficulty of notifying applicants by phone and mail.

Not a bad idea. Would save SWA some money with mailings but in this case I don't believe SWA would feel the savings would offset the "impersonal" tone this would set. The folks in the PD are genuinely distressed when folks don't get picked up. Leaving such a post on a web site makes it even tougher but I understand the issue of the delay & waiting for the answer in the mail or phone. I will pass on the thought though. Additionally, some folks are sent a letter that says they didn't make the cut but are encouraged to re-apply again & go through the process. The 2 yr rule doesn't apply. It doesn't apply to many but for folks who are right on the edge from the DB standpoint, this procedure allows someone who is right on the edge to reapply & have the company take another look at them much quicker. Believe it or not, some folks don't take the opportunity to reapply & miss out on a golden opportunity to get hired the 2nd time around.


>Why contact the references and be consumed by a background check before the offer of employment? This alerts fellow workers and management of a pilot’s intentions to leave their current employer, before a job offer has been received.

Background checks are a necessary evil to confirm what is on a resume is accurate. What other way could an airline determine the accuracy of the credentials of a pilot? Obviously any employers other than your current ones aren't a problem but SWA must ensure future candidates are who they say they are. I'm sure these type of calls are standard in the industry & are done in a way that may not let on to who is asking for the info. For example, SWA does have some outside companies do some of their background checks to allow for objective collective of information & to keep from having their name associated with a request which might raise suspicions from a company.



>Why are so many candidates unsuccessful on the first attempt, only later to be good enough on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th attempt?

Several reasons.
1. More hours/better resume. SWA views PIC time as important. We hire Capts, not FOs. Doesn't mean that if you have min PIC hours you won't get hired (many do) but when it comes down to the nut-cutting, quality of time is important.
2. Better letters of LOR; more folks from inside the company vs. the last time.
3. Folks get type the 2nd time around. SWA can see if you interviewed the first time & if nothing has changed other than hours the question can be asked of the applicant " what is he/she doing different than last time to show us he/she is interested in SWA?" A "type" shows that.
4. Better interview technique. If you only flew an ILS every 2 years how good would you be? If you only interview every 2 years how good can you expect to be? I'm not saying you have to hire interview prep folks to be successful but if you know what the process is like after 1 time it makes sense to me one would make every effort to learn from that & be better prepared the next time, i.e. review the questions with good answers, improved communication skills/interview skills, comfortable talking about yourself

>If the competition was fierce this time around, why have a candidate wait two years before reapplying?

Not everyone has to but the vast majority do (see my answer above). The 2 year wait allows an individual & SWA time away from each other to get a fresh look at each other. I would view the current situation as a stronger reason to wait more than 2 years but in fact regardless of what the hiring pool has been, the 2 yr rule was in effect. Prior to 911 the pool of applicants was much smaller thereby justifying a shorter wait period, SWA didn't though.

I was told during the interview process, that an unsuccessful candidate could receive a reason for rejection from the People Department. How is this accomplished?

> Two ways. One official. Call the PD & ask Jenn. You'll get generic answers such as "interview was just OK", "stronger flying background". If you'd like more info/detail, you could ask them if you could speak to one of the DB reps themselves. They may have that individual contact you individually. I would stress the fact you really want to learn from the process & plan on re-applying at the 2 year point. For that reason you really want to work on whatever it takes to do better the next time. Be aware that certain legal issues will preclude them from giving too much detail over the phone. Additionally, if you have any folks from within SWA that recommended you they maybe able to find out more details.

Do you know of many candidates with types (who did not purchase them) who were hired from other carriers on the first attempt?

I don't personally know of any but I'm confident we have had them in the past & probably had them on this DB. If you speaking in terms of furloughed capts my answer would still be the same. As a side note on this particular note of furloughed pilots I will make this comment. I've had several folks ask me if a letter of resignation to one's previous employer (seniority number) is appropriate to give to SWA. One can debate the pros & cons for a long time. I don't know if SWA is requiring it or is even interested in it. However, if it was me I'd do it to simply demonstrate my desire to come to SWA. For those who disagree, pls don't pummel me too bad. I know it is easy for me to sit here with a secure job & say that. Yes it is, but I've had folks asked my opinion & I've given it. I'm sure there are other answers just as good.


Hope that helps,
cheers & God Bless