Lowered mins are here.

[Fly-By-Cable]

If the 1500 rule was in place today, there wouldn't be any pilots available, they can't even find pilots with 1000 now. How do regionals expect to have pilots with 1500 hours 2 years from now when there's going to be mass hiring at the majors indefintely?

You do realize that there is absolutely no way the 1500hr requirement will ever be implemented right? Two years leaves alot of time for lobbying by big business to get that whole thing thrown out. Even if it stays in the bill it will be smoke and mirrors, with tons of loop wholes which will make the entire thing useless. Where on earth will regionals find pilots with 1500hrs when they're hiring people with 500 already? With 52% of departures in the US flown by regionals air travel will stop with this bill. I know I know, pay more and you'll find people. This is America where profits far exceed in priority over safety or anything else. This 1500 hr thing will never happen. Its sad but true non the less. What congressman would want to be responsible for hundreds of canceled flight daily? Good luck getting reelected.

 

[on autopilot]

Yea, the regionals are hiring people with 500 tt or less, expect it to go even lower soon.

 

[atpcliff]

surely they will get grandfathered in somehow

The "grandfathering" has already been done. The Law was signed 1 Aug 2010, and Congress said the ATP requirement did not have to be met until 1 Aug 2013. That gave the airlines 3 years to get organized. I have not heard of any airline, especially the regional -121 carriers, who will be the most affected, doing anything at all to fix their looming hiring problems.

There is no 1500 hour rule.

That is correct. The requirement is for an ATP to be a -121 pilot. Currently, one of the ATP requirements is 1500 hours.

We have a winner... although I would seriously *hope* we have an ATP rule (1500 and/or other mins) in the bill.

There is no "hope", and there is no "in the bill". The LAW requiring an ATP to be a -121 pilot was signed by Obama on 1 Aug 2010. It is a done deal.

There would obviously have to be a timeline to achieve it

As mentioned above the airlines had 3 years to fix their upcoming hiring problems.

If the 1500 rule (really an ATP rule) was in place today, there wouldn't be any pilots available, they can't even find pilots with 1000 now. How do regionals expect to have pilots with 1500 hours 2 years from now when there's going to be mass hiring at the majors indefintely?

That is a VERY good question, and one that the airlines, and especially the regioinals, are currently ignoring, as far as I can see.

You do realize that there is absolutely no way the 1500hr requirement will ever be implemented right? Two years leaves alot of time for lobbying by big business to get that whole thing thrown out. Even if it stays in the bill it will be smoke and mirrors,

It is an ATP requirement, not 1500 hours. There is no "stays in the bill". The ATP requirement is a LAW, and it was put into place 1 Aug, 2010.

Based on the LAW, the requirements for the ATP WILL change. While they may lower the hour requirement, there will be additional requirements added on to the current requirements, as per Congress' LAW. It is 99% certain that getting an ATP after 1 Aug 2013, will be much more difficult than getting a Commercial License today.

cliff
SYD

 

[Flyerdan]

The "grandfathering" has already been done. The Law was signed 1 Aug 2010, and Congress said the ATP requirement did not have to be met until 1 Aug 2013. That gave the airlines 3 years to get organized. I have not heard of any airline, especially the regional -121 carriers, who will be the most affected, doing anything at all to fix their looming hiring problems.


That is correct. The requirement is for an ATP to be a -121 pilot. Currently, one of the ATP requirements is 1500 hours.


There is no "hope", and there is no "in the bill". The LAW requiring an ATP to be a -121 pilot was signed by Obama on 1 Aug 2010. It is a done deal.


As mentioned above the airlines had 3 years to fix their upcoming hiring problems.


That is a VERY good question, and one that the airlines, and especially the regioinals, are currently ignoring, as far as I can see.


It is an ATP requirement, not 1500 hours. There is no "stays in the bill". The ATP requirement is a LAW, and it was put into place 1 Aug, 2010.

Based on the LAW, the requirements for the ATP WILL change. While they may lower the hour requirement, there will be additional requirements added on to the current requirements, as per Congress' LAW. It is 99% certain that getting an ATP after 1 Aug 2013, will be much more difficult than getting a Commercial License today.

cliff
SYD

So what will the new ATP minimum (and 121 hiring minimum) be? I'm guessing that coming from a pilot mill with a jet course it will end up being around 500hrs.

 

[doh]

So what will the new ATP minimum (and 121 hiring minimum) be? I'm guessing that coming from a pilot mill with a jet course it will end up being around 500hrs.

It would be nice if it was 1,000 hrs. But I think 350-500 hrs is more accurate.

 

[dhc8ap]

With regards to the new 1500 rule, regionals are already running stats on what this will look like. They are running 2 forecast models, one for simple attrition and retirement and one for the 1500 hr rule to see where their FO's will be so that they can adjust hiring now. Where I see the problem, we have always relied on flight instructing to build time, but with a recession, not many people are taking lessons. So of the few that want to get there, it may take them a lot longer.

At present, it is my understanding that the 1500 is a hard line, no grandfather clause.

 

[Downwind]

If the 1500 rule was in place today, there wouldn't be any pilots available, they can't even find pilots with 1000 now. How do regionals expect to have pilots with 1500 hours 2 years from now when there's going to be mass hiring at the majors indefintely?

No, there are pilots. And with far more experience than 1000 or 1500TT. There just aren't experienced pilots willing to work for such low wages. I'll be more than happy to bring my 4000 hours and three types to Eagle just as soon as they pay a livable wage. Until then (never I assume), no dice.


Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[pilotyip]

there is something in there about advanced training that can be used to reduce the 1500 rules, I am not sure what this is. Any thoughts anyone?

 

[doh]

Yip, like I said, 350-500 TT.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

there is something in there about advanced training that can be used to reduce the 1500 rules, I am not sure what this is. Any thoughts anyone?

I expect to see crap like this....

American Eagle Airlines is excited to announce that we have adjusted our new hiring minimum. American Eagles hiring goals are to hire over 670 pilots in 2011, and foresee hiring to continue into 2012. Our new minimums are as follows:

• 500 Total time with 50 hours multi-engine
• Successful completion of the hiring process
• Successful completion of ATP's Regional Jet Standards Course (Paid for by American Eagle Airlines)
• Two year signed commitment to fly for American Eagle Airlines

Pilots who currently have 800 total time and 100 hours multi-engine time will not be subject to completing the RJ Course or the two year signed commitment. Pilots interested in working for American Eagle should ensure their application is updated and published via airlineapps. If you have an application on file with us, please send an email to [email protected]
Sincerely,
American Eagle Pilot Recruitment Team

 

[pilotyip]

I expect to see crap like this....

American Eagle Airlines is excited to announce that we have adjusted our new hiring minimum. American Eagles hiring goals are to hire over 670 pilots in 2011, and foresee hiring to continue into 2012. Our new minimums are as follows:

• 500 Total time with 50 hours multi-engine
• Successful completion of the hiring process
• Successful completion of ATP's Regional Jet Standards Course (Paid for by American Eagle Airlines)
• Two year signed commitment to fly for American Eagle Airlines

Pilots who currently have 800 total time and 100 hours multi-engine time will not be subject to completing the RJ Course or the two year signed commitment. Pilots interested in working for American Eagle should ensure their application is updated and published via airlineapps. If you have an application on file with us, please send an email to [email protected]
Sincerely,
American Eagle Pilot Recruitment Team

thanks

 

[coffeedog]

there is something in there about advanced training that can be used to reduce the 1500 rules, I am not sure what this is. Any thoughts anyone?

Looking at the law I expect the requrements for credit toward the 1500 hr requirement to be the subject of intense lobbying effort. I suspect that American Eagle Airlines will keep stats on their current use of ATP's Regional Jet Standards Course, and lobby for that to be acceptable credit.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ216/pdf/PLAW-111publ216.pdf
124 STAT. 2368 PUBLIC LAW 111–216—AUG. 1, 2010
SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
(d) CREDIT TOWARD FLIGHT HOURS.—The Administrator may
allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required
under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours
required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such
credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing
a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance
safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight
hours requirement.
(f) DEADLINE.—Not later than 36 months after the date of
enactment of this Act, the Administrator shall issue a final rule
under subsection (a).

 

[atpcliff]

The "normal" commercial mins are 250 hours. With various exceptions, you can qualify for the commercial with as little as about 188 hours. 188 is 75.2% of 250.

So, if we applied the same percentage of reduction to the current 1500/ATP mins, we come up with 1128 hours. I don't realistically see reducing the ATP mins below around 1000-1200 hours, at the max. And, the 1500 hour requirement could go UP. That is a possibility that most pilots don't think of. There ARE more, new requirements that will be added on to get an ATP license, as per the LAW that Congress has passed.

cliff
ANC

 

[doh]

Cliff, I hope you are right.