Low time pilot training AvCAreer.TV

[stingray]

these kind of companies are not good for aviation they are trying to take short cuts in order to get their company to make a profit. gulfstream is one of them whom is willing to take the shortcut with inexpierence co-pilots, (it may be legal but it doesn't make right or safe)
What is that line that you should never cross especialy in aviation? Do the research!

 

[publisher]

Either Way

StingRay,

The argument is who is paid or paying.

The fact is that the level of experience is not going to be very high either way in the Gulfstream case.

Tab is different. No carrier involved. It is an extremely intense program from what I saw with instructors who had tremendous experience levels. Is is for everyone,,,, no. It is geared to crew oriented multi engine turbine. If that is what one needs and wants, they have a solid program that is focused.

 

[stingray]

PFT is not good idea anyways.
Tab does have a 135 its even on thier website as lure to get prospective students.
I disagree with the pft concept as do many others. I've talked with some of the co-pilot/students in the Gulfstream enviorment and they scared me they should not be in that seat with their current expierence level, and some of my info comes from thier own captains.
My point you can't cram expierence into a few months. that pft tries to do
IT makes it even hader for expierenced pilots to make a living because of such low wages that it produces because of people willing to do the PFT
I do disagree with a certain philosiphy that is held at gulfstream by one of the persons in-charge and what they have done.
Maybe TY can explain it better, I don't know him but it looks like we agree.

Anyways Fly Safe and keep the blue side up

 

[Pilot3729]

Why do we even care...

First of all, that guys with all those aircraft types flown has only 3000+ hours. Man what kinda job do you have?

I sense jealousy...and resentment.

He's talking about pilot's with a lack of experience...I'm sorry, but if you've flown all those aircraft and you have only 3000 hours and owned your own 135. Man, you think you've earned the cockpit.

You know when I was in the Marines we had very accelerated training. We did good when it came to flying standards.

I could outfly a 500 civilian pilot at 300 as far as knowledge and confidence. At 1000 hours later, which took forever I might add. We flew over oceans/countries/weather and yes Fan songs and Flushes sweating jerries. They are like the FAA, but not as nice on checkrides.

My point is when I pushed the 1500 CFII out of the seat for a job at 1200 hours I did'nt have any wine with my cheese or did I care what it took for him to get there.

Just be glad you're there and not in a country where they don't even have civil aviation.

If your whining about a pay raise or lost seat in a 777. Grab your splitting beaver and relax, because your interview didn't go well. Not because a guy from Gulfstream got your seat in the 777.

There's just too much whining going on..............WAWAWAAAA

 

[Bluto]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I think you may have flown for the military, but...that's about all I can gather from your post. Honestly, I can't tell if you are pro or against PFT. A little punctuation goes a long way.

 

[Pilot3729]

Sorry

No....I really don't care one way or the other actually, but I don't know why everybody is whining about these schools. I mean it just sounds like some of these guys went to an interview and the guys next to them that went to Tab or Gulfstream got the job, and now they're just P/O'd. Experience doesn't mean a thing really to me. I've seen kids with 1200 hours that can fly the pants off a 5000 hour pilot. Really to me I want the guy who has knowledge and can do his job without getting me in hot water. Were all pilots....you know why truckers couldn't keep the teamsters union nationwide, because they were too busy whining about crap on other truckers and they forgot to smell their own crap. Now they can't agree on a single thing. If we start whining about schools and all the airlines then were responsible for our own dimise. If we don't like a school don't go...If we don't like an airline don't apply...If some kid gets a job outta one of these airlines that turned down your 2000 hours for their 500 then your interview or sim session must have really sucked...Just stop whining...not meant towards you just whiners.

 

[Bluto]

Pilot3729,
I agree that there is a great deal of undesirable whining going on around here. As I understand it, the issue most people have with pay-for-training, or pay-for-job operations is not that they put out such high quality pilots that we can't compete! The issue is that when a student pays for a job, they are effectively shrinking the job pool for qualified, paid, applicants by one. This is why many people are opposed to operations like Gulfstream. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Timebuilder]

Bluto is right.

If the industry loses what could be 5, 10, or 50 legitimate jobs to Gulfstream type operations, it not only means that a similar number of pilots won't get hired and paid for those positions (I'll whine a little about that...) but in addition, it makes the industry labor resource, in this case, pilots, a "less scarce" commodity, and our economic value goes down. Overall, this means that we will be paid less when working ouside of a union structure, and can even affect collective bargaining. Imagine what would happen to pilot wages if everyone could afford training to 1200 hours. What would a 135 pilot earn? Four dollars? Five twenty-five?

Aside from complaining about this kind of operation, or, whining if you prefer, most of us feel a duty to inform the young or just plain impressionable who are new to flying and the business surrounding it about the various methods that are presenting themselves as viable alternatives to the "traditional" training regimes. I myself came within about a week of going to Gulfstream back in 1998, and I was fortunate to have someone give me a perspective that wasn't covered in the magazine ad.

That's one of the functions of this board.
It's the INFO in flightinfo.

 

[Pilot3729]

We already make minimum wage

That is true...I can say this if 135 paid $4.00 bucks an hours at 1200 hours beacause everyone can afford it, then it would balance itself out in the end.
If you take a job for a 135 operation at 4.00 per hour then you don't think highly of your job anyhow. I would find a new one.
Be real...
135 operations don't pay crap and in the real world they do pay that rate. Hell, Ameriflight with their $10.00 per hour rate. That's the same as a 40 hour per week job at 4.00 per hour to me, but I said real....so the Federal Minimum Wage is 6.50....wow, that's only 3.50 lower.
The scenario you were talking about is already real and has been since the 80's.
Pilots think that because they don't have a college degree that deserve to earn alot because why? Because were pilots right...were the prestige....the elite.
Guys get ready because remember the nerds of the 80's....they're coming with degrees, and computer literacy and education.
This is what happens when technology upgrades...we get overrun by the more educated. While we all deny it....our field is going back to the days of the military and the flight technology degrees with half 90 percent of the credit going to Ratings. The other 10 percent may be some Cat n the hat reading and a sam I am cliche.
Were destroying ourselves with out qwest for flight time...Me, you and everyone else who paid for training. Airlines need us..we don't need them. They know that.....Make them pay for training.
ONLY IN THE PERFECT WORLD

 

[Timebuilder]

My example was intended to illustrate the economic impact of PFT operations, and the "real" truth is that every job that is purchased is a job that is lost to a pilot who has paid his dues, and that lowers the profession, economically and ethically. The less scarce pilots are, the less we will be worth to ANY carrier.