Loss of Medical Insurance

[jtf]

What kind of loss of medical insurance is offered at the various major airlines? Is it just whatever ALPA offers paid for by the individuals or do any of the airlines offer it as a free benefit? What is the duration of the coverage (a couple of years after medical loss or until age 60/65)? Does anyone know what insurance companies the airlines use for this insurance if they aren't using the ALPA coverage? I've checked out the Harvey Watt stuff that is offered for non-airline pilots and it is all based on the Social Security definition of disabled (total inability to work any job, versus just loss of pilot medical) and that isn't the kind of coverage I'm interested in. Does anybody know any other companies to check out other than Harvey Watt? I work for NetJets and I am trying to help the new union to find a product to offer us that goes beyond the 2 years of coverage we already have for a reasonable price that doesn't go strictly by the fully disabled definition that is the only supplemental thing I've seen so far. We tried this on the fractionals forum, but it hasn't gotten very far and I'm guessing I'll get some more useful info here.

 

[a320drivr]

I can tell ya the one at JB blows!!!!

 

[Jonny Sacko]

I just up'd mine with ALPA because I was already in their program. It's not really great either, only pays for 4 years, after a year of waiting. So really, if you can get something else, it's might be worth a look. They use Guardian Insurance, I believe.

The Guardian Life​

Insurance Company of America, 7 Hanover Square, New York, NY 10004-2616

 

[Big Beer Belly]

What kind of loss of medical insurance is offered at the various major airlines? Is it just whatever ALPA offers paid for by the individuals or do any of the airlines offer it as a free benefit? What is the duration of the coverage (a couple of years after medical loss or until age 60/65)? Does anyone know what insurance companies the airlines use for this insurance if they aren't using the ALPA coverage? I've checked out the Harvey Watt stuff that is offered for non-airline pilots and it is all based on the Social Security definition of disabled (total inability to work any job, versus just loss of pilot medical) and that isn't the kind of coverage I'm interested in. Does anybody know any other companies to check out other than Harvey Watt? I work for NetJets and I am trying to help the new union to find a product to offer us that goes beyond the 2 years of coverage we already have for a reasonable price that doesn't go strictly by the fully disabled definition that is the only supplemental thing I've seen so far. We tried this on the fractionals forum, but it hasn't gotten very far and I'm guessing I'll get some more useful info here.

At UPS - (all I recall is what covers me personally... capt on max rate) - If I can't do my current job (i.e., fly 121) then I receive $12k/mo tax free until age 65. The IPA negotiated this voluntary group policy with a private insurer. This type of insurance/benefit is common and should not be difficult to obtain. You obviously want coverage that pays if your disability prevents you from doing your current flying job and you want protection till normal retirement age.


BBB

 

[banger]

At UPS - (all I recall is what covers me personally... capt on max rate) - If I can't do my current job (i.e., fly 121) then I receive $12k/mo tax free until age 65. The IPA negotiated this voluntary group policy with a private insurer. This type of insurance/benefit is common and should not be difficult to obtain. You obviously want coverage that pays if your disability prevents you from doing your current flying job and you want protection till normal retirement age.


BBB

I think you are talking about loss of liciense insurance and his question was medical.

 

[momalley81]

I think you are talking about loss of liciense insurance and his question was medical.

It's the same thing.

 

[jtf]

Thanks for the info so far and please keep it coming. I am curious to see what the other companies have so that I do my best to help improve what I have. I definitely want better loss of medical/ license and not just disability. I've got 2 years at 60 percent or max of 5K per month currently. It's better than nothing, but I am willing to pay for more and hopefully the union can get a group policy together so the rates will be reasonable, but first we need to know what is out there. Maybe in future when we have a new contract to negotiate we can get the group together to demand better if we can show them what else is out there. I was hoping to hear that at least some places offer it lasting through retirement age- that is huge since I'd imagine all any of us want to do is be a pilot and most of us don't have much training in anything else. I do have a backup plan, but it doesn't pay as well and I'd like to have at least some outside money coming in to keep my standard of living at least close to what flying does.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

ALPA also offers a lump sum insurance policy for loss of license/medical. I think the idea is to pay for training or education into a new career field should something happen. Addt'l fee, but still pretty cheap I think.

 

[momalley81]

Thanks for the info so far and please keep it coming. I am curious to see what the other companies have so that I do my best to help improve what I have. I definitely want better loss of medical/ license and not just disability. I've got 2 years at 60 percent or max of 5K per month currently. It's better than nothing, but I am willing to pay for more and hopefully the union can get a group policy together so the rates will be reasonable, but first we need to know what is out there. Maybe in future when we have a new contract to negotiate we can get the group together to demand better if we can show them what else is out there. I was hoping to hear that at least some places offer it lasting through retirement age- that is huge since I'd imagine all any of us want to do is be a pilot and most of us don't have much training in anything else. I do have a backup plan, but it doesn't pay as well and I'd like to have at least some outside money coming in to keep my standard of living at least close to what flying does.

When you look at Loss of License coverage make sure you are getting own occupation versus any occupation. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Also, remember that you will never get more than 60% of gross income. That's the way that disability and loss of license plans are set up.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Also, remember that you will never get more than 60% of gross income. That's the way that disability and loss of license plans are set up.

Which is almost the same as you probably currently take home anyway since its tax free, right?

 

[momalley81]

Which is almost the same as you probably currently take home anyway since its tax free, right?

You are correct. That's the way it is designed to work.

 

[Splert]

You are correct. That's the way it is designed to work.

Employer paid LOL plan benefits are NOT tax free.

 

[momalley81]

Employer paid LOL plan benefits are NOT tax free.

I am not talking about an employer paid plan. (Almost all the LOL plans that I know of are voluntary.)

If the premium is paid with after tax dollars by the pilot, the benefit cannot be taxed.

That's the way it works.

That being said if the premium is paid in after tax dollars then the benefit is usually paid at 60% of gross pay up to a certain amount. Those monies are not taxed because they have been paid with using after tax money.

 

[Splert]

I am not talking about an employer paid plan. (Almost all the LOL plans that I know of are voluntary.)

If the premium is paid with after tax dollars by the pilot, the benefit cannot be taxed.

That's the way it works.

That being said if the premium is paid in after tax dollars then the benefit is usually paid at 60% of gross pay up to a certain amount. Those monies are not taxed because they have been paid with using after tax money.

Most major airline plans are not voluntary. Some are accelerated pension benefits and others are self insured employer paid plans. Few are voluntary fully insured plans.

Also for the poster who started this thread compare the continuation of employer group health plan coverage for the LOL pilot and dependent. Most major airlines provide some form of continuation or portability of the employer group heath plan. This is very important.

 

[momalley81]

Most major airline plans are not voluntary. Some are accelerated pension benefits and others are self insured employer paid plans. Few are voluntary fully insured plans.

SWA = Voluntary LOL plan.

AA = Voluntary LOL plan.

UPS = Voluntary LOL plan.

Those are 3 airlines with VOLUNTARY plans and I am quite positive there are more.

Since I fly for SWA and used to fly for AA I am well versed in both plans. I have also been in the Insurance Business since 2002 so I have just a little knowledge into how these plans work.

Also for the poster who started this thread compare the continuation of employer group health plan coverage for the LOL pilot and dependent. Most major airlines provide some form of continuation or portability of the employer group heath plan. This is very important.

It is called COBRA. It is mandated by law to have continuation of Healthcare benefits for 29 months.

 

[Splert]

SWA = Voluntary LOL plan.

AA = Voluntary LOL plan.

UPS = Voluntary LOL plan.

Those are 3 airlines with VOLUNTARY plans and I am quite positive there are more.

Since I fly for SWA and used to fly for AA I am well versed in both plans. I have also been in the Insurance Business since 2002 so I have just a little knowledge into how these plans work.



It is called COBRA. It is mandated by law to have continuation of Healthcare benefits for 29 months.

Now I’m afraid, very afraid.

CORBA is a short walk on a long pier for a pilot who suffers a LOL due to the number one reason pilots suffer a LOL - Coronary. Then there is the entire family of dependents. For instance a wife with cancer or a child with a developmental issue or is on ADD medication. CORBA is not the answer and IS the reason almost every Major airline offers a LOL pilot, spouse and dependents access to the group plan while they are on LOL/LTD. LUV doesn’t just drop you and neither did AA or UPS or UAL or NWA or DAL, get it.

Also, COBRA is for 18 months but will extend to 29 months ONLY if a pilot, that is who we are talking about, is terminated FIRST and then SECOND becomes disabled according the definition of SS (not even close to a LOL plan trigger definition) within 60 days after being terminated (quit, fired, furlougherd, etc) and will then only extend CORBA benefit for up to 29 months.

This is not the LOL pilot who WAS EMPLOYED WHEN THEY BECAME DISABLED. That is who we are talking about. CORBA coverage only last 18 months and is the reason major airline pilot groups have some form of continuation of the employer plan benefits for the LOL pilot and spouse and dependents.

I’m very familiar with LTD/LOL and PMA plans at LUV and the plan at NWA, UAL, FedEx, UPS, AMR, B6, USAirways, AWA, Alaska, CAL, etc. Some are funded by the pilots and some are not in fact most are not.

The best plan would be a fully funded employer paid plan (benefits don't disappear if the Airline does) with an own occupation trigger and no offsets for additional income with the employee paying for a lump sum plan.

You see I have been in the business since 1988.

You are not the same guy selling short-term medical plans are you?

 

[BottomPlug]

.......

 

[momalley81]

Now I’m afraid, very afraid.

CORBA is a short walk on a long pier for a pilot who suffers a LOL due to the number one reason pilots suffer a LOL - Coronary. Then there is the entire family of dependents. For instance a wife with cancer or a child with a developmental issue or is on ADD medication. CORBA is not the answer and IS the reason almost every Major airline offers a LOL pilot, spouse and dependents access to the group plan while they are on LOL/LTD. LUV doesn’t just drop you and neither did AA or UPS or UAL or NWA or DAL, get it.

I’m very familiar with LTDLOL and PMA plans at LUV and the plan at NWA, UAL, FedEx, UPS, AMR, B6, USAirways, AWA, Alaska, CAL, etc. Some are funded by the pilots and some are not in fact most are not.

The best plan would be a fully funded employer paid plan with an own occupation trigger and no offsets for additional income with the employee paying for a lump sum plan.

You see I have been in the business since 1988. Want my license number?

In my rush I mis-read your statement. For that I apologize.

When I first read your statement I interpreted that you were stating that the pilot automatically loses coverage for him/her and their family when the LOL kicks in. (Of course COBRA would not allow that) I don't know how I came up with that but when I re-read it, I understand what you are saying.

I will say however that I still disagree with you on most LOL plans not being voluntary. I am still finding that everyone is.

Once again my apologies.

I do however disagree with you on the LOL plan

 

[Splert]

In my rush I mis-read your statement. For that I apologize.

When I first read your statement I interpreted that you were stating that the pilot automatically loses coverage for him/her and their family when the LOL kicks in. (Of course COBRA would not allow that) I don't know how I came up with that but when I re-read it, I understand what you are saying.

I will say however that I still disagree with you on most LOL plans not being voluntary. I am still finding that everyone is.

Once again my apologies.

I do however disagree with you on the LOL plan

A component of the plan my be voluntary but the core plan of most are funded by the airline but UNFORTUNATELY they are self insured. For instance with a self insured plan those who are on plan benefits would lose those benefits if the airline goes away. Which of course I hope never happens but needs to be in the FRONT of every pilot group head when negotiating these important benefits. It is the pilot groups best LONG TERM interest to have a fully insured plan paid for by the airlines with a lump sum plan paid for by the pilot.

This is a complicated subject and is not served very well on BBS forums.

I'm a huge fan of SWPAPA's PMA plan and think it a tremendous reflection of SWAPA commitment to not leave a BRO behind.

Take care.