Looming Pilot Shortage

[YourPilotFriend]

No, whats really funny is that the guys complaining are fighting for the very same kid who is saying he doesn't care about the state of the industry because he loves flying. These kids will do anything just to fly the jet, only to become the person they once told to leave the profession. I know because I was the same way.

The truth is kids you will sign up to fly the jet, and that's exactly what you'll get. All day and almost everyday for the years of your life that count. But that jet will never tuck you in at night or look up and say I love you daddy. Try crying yourself to sleep because you cant put any presents under the tree at christmas time. To all those ERAU capt people who say experience doesn't equal judgement, that statement right there tells me about your judgement. You don't have any; A$$holes!!!

 

[TurboS7]

Isn't worth the money

There may be a pilot shortage coming but not a shortage of pilots willing to work for peanuts. All the contracts that are being offered for the overseas stuff for NG 737 types come to less than $70,000 per year. This includes being away from home 9 months out of th year. If you want to see the world for free I guess it is OK but as a family man forget it.

 

[TurboS7]

Lots of pilots willing to work for nothing

There may be a pilot shortage of pilots willing to work for a good wage but there will never be a pilot shortage of pilots willing to work for nothing. The overseas contracts(737NG) for China, India, and Mideast only bring in 70K per year when you read the fine print. When you consider that you have to be away from home 9 months out of the year, forget it. Sell the house.

 

[Papps]

The medical and pharmacutical professions have preserved themselves by restricting the entry of incoming applicants. So you dont have 3 billion eager turds flooding the community every year. We need a national seniority list and a commitee that squeezes the annual applicants down to a manageable level. People don't expect to get a heart transplant for $79.00. Why, because the medical groups don't slice each others throats on price. Low bid, in a desperate attempt to keep their physicians from getting furloughed and sent packing only to go through residency again when they find a new group. Much like our pilots have to do when they move to another carrier (bottom of a list). It might be bad for pilots in the short term, but good for the industry in the long term.

 

[414Flyer]

The medical and pharmacutical professions have preserved themselves by restricting the entry of incoming applicants. So you dont have 3 billion eager turds flooding the community every year. We need a national seniority list and a commitee that squeezes the annual applicants down to a manageable level. People don't expect to get a heart transplant for $79.00. Why, because the medical groups don't slice each others throats on price. Low bid, in a desperate attempt to keep their physicians from getting furloughed and sent packing only to go through residency again when they find a new group. Much like our pilots have to do when they move to another carrier (bottom of a list). It might be bad for pilots in the short term, but good for the industry in the long term.

People on here have claimed AMA limits medical school admissions, but I have not seen any evidence it is being kept artificially low, but that it is based on the capacity of the medical school more than anything else.

Becoming a physician is too much different than becoming a pilot, that I dont even think it is a valid comparison.

I really dont want some government agency or alpa committee picking and choosing who can be a pilot. Some fields are just going to often have a surplus of labor, because we live in a free country where you have the freedom to be a pilot if one chooses that. Its not a freedom I want to see taken away, so that current pilots can maybe get a bigger paycheck.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I wouldn't get on Metro, because he's entitled to his opinion.

Yip and I have discussed this on a few occasions. The reason I don't get out is because I don't possess the training or skills to do anything else at this point or the desire to learn anything new. This is a job to me and it has always been that way. Even the military was merely a means to an end.

If, in a perfect world, I could economically cover my needs while fixing all the things about being a commercial pilot that I don't like, I'd leave today. But it isn't going to happen.

And before I get the comment "you must be a real joy to be on a trip with" yada yada yada...

I'm the kind of guy that you'd want to be on a trip with, because I never talk about airplanes or the company. Truth is, I don't care much about either.

As far as you kicking anyone in the nuts...might I suggest decaf?

I wasn't getting on Metro, I was gettin' on the dude who was gettin' on Metro.

You are one of the first who addresses his comment as to why you are still in it.

As for decaf...nah...kicking people in the nuts is a hobby of mine. It's fun. Everyone should do it.

 

[Papps]

People on here have claimed AMA limits medical school admissions, but I have not seen any evidence it is being kept artificially low, but that it is based on the capacity of the medical school more than anything else.

Becoming a physician is too much different than becoming a pilot, that I dont even think it is a valid comparison.

I really dont want some government agency or alpa committee picking and choosing who can be a pilot. Some fields are just going to often have a surplus of labor, because we live in a free country where you have the freedom to be a pilot if one chooses that. Its not a freedom I want to see taken away, so that current pilots can maybe get a bigger paycheck.

Im not comparing the process of becoming a pilot to the process of becoming a physician. Prior to the early 1900's all you needed to become a doctor was money and desire. The medical schools just fished for money just like flight schools now do. By revamping that system, what they did was increase the quality of the service that patients received. The pharmacutial industry has done something similar in the last 20 years, and the result has been an increased quality of graduates. Tell me that we have less lives in our hands than either one of those groups.

 

[Metro752]

I think a Pharmasarian (Pharamacist) has more lives in his hands.

 

[414Flyer]

But people are not paid based on how many lifes they have in their hands, unless one counts union pilots contracts with pay based on seats.

There are lots of fields with responsibility for lives, that dont have large paychecks. Its a function of supply and demand, and also the money available.

The government does not constrict supply of doctors, nor does AMA. There is just so much capacity at medical schools. Setting up a flight school is easy, just get some planes, instructors and get ready to lose a bunch of money.

Do you really want though the process to become a pilot be revamped though to make it artificial to bring down numbers? I think one of the strengths of aviation in the US is the amount of freedom in it, compared to other countries.

 

[Papps]

But people are not paid based on how many lifes they have in their hands, unless one counts union pilots contracts with pay based on seats.

There are lots of fields with responsibility for lives, that dont have large paychecks. Its a function of supply and demand, and also the money available.

The government does not constrict supply of doctors, nor does AMA. There is just so much capacity at medical schools. Setting up a flight school is easy, just get some planes, instructors and get ready to lose a bunch of money.

Do you really want though the process to become a pilot be revamped though to make it artificial to bring down numbers? I think one of the strengths of aviation in the US is the amount of freedom in it, compared to other countries.

If the medical communty isn't limiting output, than why don't they just increase capacity, they know the money is there. It works in aviation, you sign up as many students as you can and if there are more out there, you expand the operation. Im not talking about artificially reducing numbers, im talking about quality control. If the government doesn't already do that than why hasn't GIA started the 30,000 dollar F-18 direct program. The military reduces output to meet current needs and screen. Civil aviation does not.

 

[Goose Egg]

What not talk about airplanes what other reason is there for living. I still spend my free time hanging around airports.

Pilotyip and I haven't always seen eye to eye in the past, but I've got to say that I really appreciate his attititude in this thread. I think there are a lot of reasons to become bitter and jaded in this industry, but yip refuses to think like that, and I think it's great. I mean, it's true that I'm still doing my instructing, so I really don't yet know what flying is really about. However, I've been instructing long enough to have become sick of it (somewhere around 400 dual given), yet that still hasn't happened to me. I thank my lucky stars everyday that I get to fly for a living and I'm not stuck in an office. It's true that there is a lot of doom and gloom in the industry, but there is also promise.

Oh, and speaking of the pilot shortage, I don't know if there actually is one. What I do know, however, is that right now at the entry level, you shouldn't apply to anyone that you aren't actually interested in working for or that you aren't ready to shift your life around for (that is, of course, unless you need the practice or you have taken up interviewing as a hobby.) I sent out a couple resumes in the name of experimentation and networking, thinking that it would be I while before I heard anything (if I ever did.) I got called for interviews on both. In the end, I decided it would be better for me to instruct a little longer (meaning that I'm holding out for another job somewhere else while I'm building PIC and multi), but still, it goes to show that there are jobs to be had. They weren't super well-paying jobs, but they were more than I am making instructing. And I don't expect to be paid super-well at the entry level anyway. I wouldn't expect that in any career.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Goose absolute confirmation of hte impending pilot shortage and hiring boom just around the corner. Mark you calendars June 2007

 

[Philerup]

I like how that article made going to UPS sound like a huge sacrifice. Oh No, I had to go from US Air to UPS. Yeah, please don't throw me in that briar patch.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I like how that article made going to UPS sound like a huge sacrifice. Oh No, I had to go from US Air to UPS. Yeah, please don't throw me in that briar patch.

$26K a year is not a huge sacrifice? What world do you live in?

 

[sleddriver71]

UPS starts pilots at $26,000? I don't think so.

 

[A Squared]

UPS starts pilots at $26,000? I don't think so.

Yeah, actually, they do. Of course by the 3rd year, they are at 80K, which shouldn't be much of a sacrifice.

At any rate, they aren't sacrificing. Those who have made the leap have decided that according to thier view of how things are going, they will be better off in the long run hiring on with UPS rather than staying where they are. so it's not a sarcifice at all, it's a step up.

 

[GogglesPisano]

UPS starts pilots at $26,000? I don't think so.

You thought wrong. A little research before posting is invaluable.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups-2005030140.htm

 

[sleddriver71]

You thought wrong. A little research before posting is invaluable.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups-2005030140.htm

Sometimes I don't feel like doing a little research Pisano. Why should I when you can do it for me. My though, that pay scale sure goes up quickly doesn't it?

 

[FN FAL]

UPS starts pilots at $26,000? I don't think so.

A lot of rampies throwing boxes on the ramp think the same as you, so don't feel so bad.

 

[spudskier]

Just a thought... if there is a shortfall of 30,000 pilots, airlines will want to lower mins, no? With insurance the way it is and only getting worse, the airlines are screwed. These days they're insurance companies want 1200-2000hr pilots with 100-500 of multi up from pre-9/11 of maybe 700 and 50?

calling B.S. on this one... and the insurance companies too