Looks like GK wants to keep AT's ATL, but change schedule a bit

[On Your Six]

Southwest to transform AirTran hub into ‘megacity’
By Kelly Yamanouchi
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Sunday, September 11, 2011
When Southwest Airlines fully takes over the operations of AirTran Airways in Atlanta, it will transform AirTran’s hub into what Southwest calls a “megacity” operation.

That means lots of flights but less emphasis on connections — and changes to the route map and schedules.

“I think we’re going to make some radical changes to the AirTran flight schedule,” Southwest chief executive Gary Kelly said recently.

So far, Southwest has announced plans to ax AirTran flights to Atlantic City, N.J., and Newport News, Va., and to launch nonstop service to Austin, Texas, when the Dallas-based carrier starts flying its own planes to Atlanta this winter.

“The immediate danger is to smaller cities,” said Brett Snyder, a former airline manager and author of a blog at crankyflier.com.



Maybe no allnighters? I do them occasionally, and businessmen seem to like them. At least GK seems to want to keep AT and their planes, which is something some Corndogs on here don't want to admit.

And a "Megacity?" You mean 1 concourse total? (half of C and half of D) Delta has 5 of those. Oh wait, you are going to do 16 min turns, at the World's busiest airport. Riiiiiiiiight. Good luck Cornies!



GODSPEED TO THE CORNDOGS!


OYS

 

[scoreboardII]

This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

 

[redflyer65]

Scoreboard,

No worries. There is absolutely nothing new in what he posted. ATL to be a 'flow-through' city. It's kinda what we do..

Southwest won't do the hub and spoke in Atlanta....earth shattering post OYS.

RF

 

[OakRBust]

All up in your six.... I'd make sure the popcorn gets taken out with the Friday morning trash can.... Arby's makes great Roast Beast Sammies, but I am certain our union won't be needing their help with our list. Go play with you kids, your family, or if those don't apply than with your favorite person (yourself) and take a rest from your sticky keyboard.... Oh and most importantly.....


Godspeed

 

[OakRBust]

No disrespect meant to our soon to be Airtran brothers and sisters..... Just tired of the nonsense a non caring 1%er from a competing airline has to say.

 

[General Lee]

All up in your six.... I'd make sure the popcorn gets taken out with the Friday morning trash can.... Arby's makes great Roast Beast Sammies, but I am certain our union won't be needing their help with our list. Go play with you kids, your family, or if those don't apply than with your favorite person (yourself) and take a rest from your sticky keyboard.... Oh and most importantly.....


Godspeed

Are you trying to debate with OYS? He posted an article, and gave a comment. You can agree with him, or tell him why you don't. I personally would like to see Southwest try to do their famous turns at ATL and see how that works out. I don't think it has worked out at LGA or EWR (20 min turns), and it probably won't happen at ATL either. Have fun with your Arby's Roast Beast Sammies.....?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

Delta trimming AGAIN!!!

I am not happy we are supposedly gonna stagnate, but I can't imagine shrinkage!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-to-Fly-Less-in-zacks-637896405.html?x=0&.v=1

 

[General Lee]

I am not happy we are supposedly gonna stagnate, but I can't imagine shrinkage!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-to-Fly-Less-in-zacks-637896405.html?x=0&.v=1

Hey look, it appears SWA is cancelling it's PHL-BOS route early next year. Looks like USAir beat SWA on that route, and PIT-PHL is cancelling too.


Southwest Airlines to Cancel Philadelphia – Boston Service from Feb 2012

Southwest Airlines from 11FEB12 is cancelling it service on Philadelphia – Boston route, where it currently operates 6 times a day.




Shrinkage, indeed!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

1 route is not 2-5%.

Please raise the bar!! you're killing the industry.

Hay, cool submarine jacket!!!!

 

[General Lee]

1 route is not 2-5%.

Please raise the bar!! you're killing the industry.

Hay, cool submarine jacket!!!!

Thanks Fonzi, Haaaayyyyy! Nice leather biker jacket! Actually PIT-PHL was in my post too, but you didn't see it. And didn't some analyst say in his statement that "many smaller cities" could get the ax? I assume they could be current Airtran cities? If that happens, what could happen if your list is combined by the panel of arbitrators? You actually could be affected. You just never know. I think your new airline could see a lot more than 2-5% cuts, and you don't know yet where you will end up on that list. Good luck.


From the above article:


“The immediate danger is to smaller cities,” said Brett Snyder, a former airline manager and author of a blog at crankyflier.com.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[laker4284]

SWA doesn't perform many ultra quick turns any more. I believe they fall mostly into the 20-25 minute turn category. Even so, that easily beats normal turns at other airlines. The biggest multiplier re pax carried is the turn time and GATE UTILIZATION, which also far exceeds most other carriers. Together they dramatically ramp up the number of flights they can operate and pax carried. Add to that their continual aircraft flow, rather than the hub and spoke with its large slack periods and SWA's.1.5 concourses will effectively be far larger.

Now figure in the number of international flights Delta operates, and the impact of SWA's schedule on Delta's remaining domestic system is likely to be dramatic.

It's a scenario that has been played out before.

As for a couple of dropped flights in Philly, I would hazard that it merely shows a case of market optimization. If SWA can dump a couple of unproductive routes and make more money with those assets elsewhere, then that's what they' ll do.

Might be those assets are headed to ATL.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

GODSPEED TO THE CORNDOGS!


OYS

In Your Six, "Corndogs" is a name that General Lee uses all of the time. You're getting sloppy and forgetting which screen name you're signed in under.

 

[Whataburger]

SWA doesn't perform many ultra quick turns any more. I believe they fall mostly into the 20-25 minute turn category. Even so, that easily beats normal turns at other airlines..

Most of our turns are 30-35 minutes.

Only smaller stations with anticipated light loads schedule 20-25 minute turns.

 

[Whataburger]

“The immediate danger is to smaller cities,” said Brett Snyder, a former airline manager and author of a blog at crankyflier.com.



Bye Bye--- OnYourSix/General Lee

I bet he is right. I HOPE that if a profit can't be made and/or a small city does not fit into our master plan that it gets the ax. We will reallocate those planes to more profitable routes w/o shrinking.

We don't farm out a high percentage of flying to commuters like Delta does, and we have NO codeshare partners like Delta does. We either attack a city Southwest style or we don't do it at all.

This game plan has provided over 35 straight years of profits for us.
How do the financials look for Delta's last decade or so?

I am truely happy for the city of Atlanta because ultimately the Customers win. We will run low fares to every city we serve starting next year, and other airlines (Delta especially) will lower their fares (probably at a loss) and the customer gets to go see Grandma in LBB for $69 each way.

Just like American when we went to Missouri from Love Field, Delta will attack our markets with RJ's and small mainline jets until the loss cannot be sustained any longer, then you will retract from the battle after sending your RJ's (not Delta) to compete with us.

It's just business. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I hope all airlines turn monster profits from now until eternity.

PS. I will not comment on any SLI/future arbitration issues.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Gee, I'll bet OYS sure is glad GL came onto this thread to help out with the "logic".

Dude, you really are a complete tool. Do you sit around your apartment talking to yourself in two different voices like you do on here?

 

[Ty Webb]

Just like American when we went to Missouri from Love Field, Delta will attack our markets with RJ's and small mainline jets until the loss cannot be sustained any longer, then you will retract from the battle after sending your RJ's (not Delta) to compete with us.

Delta often does the opposite, using 757 and MD80's to put a large number of mainline seats onto the route, "book-ending" our flights, and will fill up most of the seats at or below the LCC price to keep the folks off of our flights. This leads to some odd situations, like seeing a 757 and two MD80's overnighting in small stations like Pensacola.

 

[Whataburger]

Delta often does the opposite, using 757 and MD80's to put a large number of mainline seats onto the route, "book-ending" our flights, and will fill up most of the seats at or below the LCC price to keep the folks off of our flights. This leads to some odd situations, like seeing a 757 and two MD80's overnighting in small stations like Pensacola.

This is precisely where historic great customer service and no bag fees will pay large dividends.

Worst Major Airlines

#5. Delta

AQR Score: -1.22
Delta had the highest customer complaint rate (2.00 per 100,000 passengers) of all airlines in 2010, including regional carriers. Additionally, Delta placed in the number six spot on Business Insider's "Worst Companies" list. Take note of Delta's baggage fees below, as they can get quite cumbersome if you're checking heavy or large bags.
Domestic Baggage Fees

• 1st Bag: $25 ($23 if checked online)
• 2nd Bag: $35 ($32 if checked online)
• 3rd Bag: $125

 

[madjack]

I miss Lear, does anyone have any details of the swa SL proposal??

 

[Ty Webb]

The only info we've been getting may have come from a fortune cookie:

"Future look unclear. May be yes, may be no. Beware mother-in-law offering help. Year of Panda good for you. Your lucky numbers are 200, 350, 2014".

 

[Dan Roman]

I bet he is right. I HOPE that if a profit can't be made and/or a small city does not fit into our master plan that it gets the ax. We will reallocate those planes to more profitable routes w/o shrinking.

We don't farm out a high percentage of flying to commuters like Delta does, and we have NO codeshare partners like Delta does. We either attack a city Southwest style or we don't do it at all.

This game plan has provided over 35 straight years of profits for us.
How do the financials look for Delta's last decade or so?

I am truely happy for the city of Atlanta because ultimately the Customers win. We will run low fares to every city we serve starting next year, and other airlines (Delta especially) will lower their fares (probably at a loss) and the customer gets to go see Grandma in LBB for $69 each way.

Just like American when we went to Missouri from Love Field, Delta will attack our markets with RJ's and small mainline jets until the loss cannot be sustained any longer, then you will retract from the battle after sending your RJ's (not Delta) to compete with us.

It's just business. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I hope all airlines turn monster profits from now until eternity.

PS. I will not comment on any SLI/future arbitration issues.

There's another way of looking at that from the customers point of view. Having service to many cities, not just the one's SWA wants to cherry pick from, is a better option. If DAL gives the option of everywhere from Macon to Europe to wherever they are providing a very important service that breeds passenger loyality. The thing that SWA has to be careful about is if they can maintain the cheap fares. If they raise them it could backfire and drive pax's back to the full service airlines.
Historically SWA has created new markets with low fares, the jury is still out how well they will compete with the full service airlines in head to head competition.
Also DAL has substantially lowered their operating costs while SWA has lost the fuel hedge advantage and their costs are going up (employees no longer work for less than the competition, more mature airline, etc.)

And no I am not a SWA "hater". Just making an observation.

 

[Full of LUV]

This is precisely where historic great customer service and no bag fees will pay large dividends.

Worst Major Airlines

#5. Delta

AQR Score: -1.22
Delta had the highest customer complaint rate (2.00 per 100,000 passengers) of all airlines in 2010, including regional carriers. Additionally, Delta placed in the number six spot on Business Insider's "Worst Companies" list. Take note of Delta's baggage fees below, as they can get quite cumbersome if you're checking heavy or large bags.
Domestic Baggage Fees

• 1st Bag: $25 ($23 if checked online)
• 2nd Bag: $35 ($32 if checked online)
• 3rd Bag: $125

Whata,
I think the point about bag fees that you miss is that the loyal / biz flyers rarely if ever pay fees. They are allowed waivers on everything. Even you can if you get yourself a DAL AMEX. Those fees are for the expedia / kayak crowd that want a $99 round trip from stl to mco. They get to show up as low fares, but you pay for what you use. I guess time will tell if bag fees will be ruinous for the major airlines.

 

[madjack]

"And no I am not a SWA "hater". Just making an observation."

I have many friends at DAL, they like the advantages of flying international and the pay rates are ok...but you make more at SWA...that is just an observation also...

 

[Full of LUV]

"And no I am not a SWA "hater". Just making an observation."

I have many friends at DAL, they like the advantages of flying international and the pay rates are ok...but you make more at SWA...that is just an observation also...

Great for them in 2011. Wasn't the case in 2001 or 1991 or 1981. Hopefully we'll all be around to see what's the situation in 2021 and 2031.
LUV

 

[Dan Roman]

Great for them in 2011. Wasn't the case in 2001 or 1991 or 1981. Hopefully we'll all be around to see what's the situation in 2021 and 2031.
LUV

Well that's certainly true and it's pretty foolish to compare a couple years against the big picture. What's really foolish is to miss the fact that we all are making pretty good salaries at the legacy level but it's not were it should be and likely has bottomed out. Hopefully the downward trend caused by cutthroat competition will reverse itself. But to compare one against the other in some kind of ego thing is a fools game.

 

[redflyer65]

Whata,
Even you can if you get yourself a DAL AMEX. .

I was always blown away by this mentality from Delta.

It's like charging for mustard for your hotdog. It was free yesterday, but the new policy is we charge for it. Unless.. you buy a coke, then the mustard is free.

Unbelievable.

 

[Sacha]

Question. What exactly is a full service airline? Domestically I mean. Do you get a meals on China Plates? Do you get free cocktails? When my wife and I travel we almost always go full fare to avoid the non-rev thing plus the wife goes on business trips about once a month. Pleasure trips we go coach and the wife usually goes Business Class for work. Other than SWA, we go on American to Alaska and Montana and Delta for business. I just don't recall any fancy meals and free drinks for our full service tickets for many, many years. Her business class seats to ATL,LGA and MDW get her a better seat but she hasn't seen any Filet Mignon lately.

 

[Full of LUV]

Question. What exactly is a full service airline? Domestically I mean. Do you get a meals on China Plates? Do you get free cocktails? When my wife and I travel we almost always go full fare to avoid the non-rev thing plus the wife goes on business trips about once a month. Pleasure trips we go coach and the wife usually goes Business Class for work. Other than SWA, we go on American to Alaska and Montana and Delta for business. I just don't recall any fancy meals and free drinks for our full service tickets for many, many years. Her business class seats to ATL,LGA and MDW get her a better seat but she hasn't seen any Filet Mignon lately.

Full service is:
The ability to reserve a good seat ahead of takeoff.
The ability to go first class when wanted.
The ability to buy food if in coach.
The ability to use internet.
The ability to travel worldwide with one airline or loyalty program.
The ability to use a private lounge with services while waiting in airports.

Full service isn't free. But to berate airlines that offer food against an airline that offers chips and a soda for their food is a little dishonest. Full Service airlines are not for everyone, but either are Low Cost Carriers either. I think it's noteworthy how the LCC's have moved closer to the majors and the majors have been moved closer to the LCC model as well.

 

[Dan Roman]

Question. What exactly is a full service airline? Domestically I mean. Do you get a meals on China Plates? Do you get free cocktails? When my wife and I travel we almost always go full fare to avoid the non-rev thing plus the wife goes on business trips about once a month. Pleasure trips we go coach and the wife usually goes Business Class for work. Other than SWA, we go on American to Alaska and Montana and Delta for business. I just don't recall any fancy meals and free drinks for our full service tickets for many, many years. Her business class seats to ATL,LGA and MDW get her a better seat but she hasn't seen any Filet Mignon lately.

I would say full service means the ability to go more places and the option to have more choices. You can get a cheap seat in coach or you can purchase a business class seat or you can go first class overseas. You can earn miles to go anywhere in the world you want, you can sit in a private lounge while you wait etc etc. The more options one has the more full service an airline is.

 

[Dan Roman]

To funny, we posted that at the same time. I should have waited as the answer was pretty obvious.

 

[Dornier 335]

some easy reading for the armchair experts

source


The New Airline & Air Service Strategy Metrics


American Airlines is dropping SFO-Honolulu this fall. Earlier this year, the carrier dropped Boston-SFO.
The good-ole-boys network on Wall Street attributed this to AA being driven out by low-fare competition.
"AA can't compete with those low-cost guys, like Southwest." they'll pontificate, not having a clue about the subject matter. Not a clue about data like pay rates for an American Airlines 777 captain are less than for a Southwest 737 captain. Or, that in the SFO-BOS market, comparing LCC jetBlue and American, AA was the strongest of the two carriers carrier in the game.
It's yet another example proving that a Ouija Board is often a better source of aviation investment advice than what comes from some of the gurus on the 'Street. They tend to be consensus-dwellers. Looking at hard data is not their M.O.
Whole New Metrics. The fact is that both of these markets pushed 80% load factors for American in 2010. Boston was 84.1% and they had almost 20% of the total market, the largest single share between the two carriers (AA & B6). Not only that, but AA commanded a $40 fare premium over jetBlue.
So, why yank flights when they were essentially full?
Because in today's airline business, it's not "more passengers" or "market share" that are on the scoreboard anymore. It's maximizing return on resources - i.e., putting planes where they leverage the airline's brand and alliance power to the maximum. American gets nearly zip on-line feed at Boston or SFO. So, if the system contribution is less than in other applications of the same aircraft. it's bye-bye for the service. If that means ceding traffic territory to other airlines in order to get higher returns, so be it.
All Carriers Are Moving Away From Just Market Share. It's across the entire airline industry. The traditional strategy of operating some markets just to maintain brand presence in a metro area is a luxury that airlines can no longer afford.
For examples, Southwest is dropping out of two major commuter markets - Spokane-Seattle and Philadelphia-Pittsburgh. In both markets WN underperformed vs. "legacy" carriers. In PHL-PIT, Southwest clocked in at a 54.5% load factor v US Airways' 75.%. While Southwest carried slightly more passengers than US Airways (due to aircraft gauge), its paper-thin market edge (40% of the market v US Airways 37%) came at an expensive 11% yield disadvantage.
When go-juice is costing $3+ per gallon, that's not affordable any more. It's great to tell the city that the airline has a "commitment" - but that doesn't include losing money just to show the colors on an important route.
The GEG-SEA market, Southwest had a tough go against Alaska Airlines, which kept 78.0% of its seats full in the year ending 1Q 2011. Southwest? 54.4%. Yup, the route is an important market for building consumer loyalty in both SEA and GEG, but it's one where Southwest has found it can make more $$ by moving its lift elsewhere.
Next to watch: PHL-BOS. It's a big half-million O&D market. Southwest is getting a 48.1% load factor. US Airways is at 76.9%. Not only that, but US Airways - which still captures almost two-thirds of the traffic - has a whopping 40% yield premium on the route compared to WN. That's not a typo: it's 48.9 cents for US Airways v Southwest's 34.3 cents. (Just in passing, this is the type of analysis subscribers to Aviation DataMiner can do in a snap, and get a real indication of what air service direction airlines may be taking in specific markets.)
Point: Southwest is the best at what it does, but its product fits in some markets and not as well in others. So, like other carriers, it will take its airplane marbles out of games where it can't win. Or where it can't win as much as in other places. It's the new planning dynamic for American and every other US carrier, too.
Air Service Planning: It's Knowing The Carrier's Strategy First. What this means for airports trying to build - or just keep - air service is that the #1 issue is knowing what the airline's overall market strategy will be in the future.
Wasting money on surveys, doing gee-look-at-all-the-lost-traffic leakage studies, and inflicting gigantic 50-slide presentation decks on glazed-over airline planners won't do diddly in the future to move the airline decision-needle. It's knowing what the target carrier's future revenue strategies will be, and matching the community's opportunities (if they actually exist) to them.
It also renders useless the oft-pushed schemes at small cities to chase after "that low fare carrier we deserve." The fact is that without an A-380 load of cash - like millions that small communities can't afford - it is not going to happen. Look at it this way: if Southwest can't make a go of Philly-Pitt, it has zero chance of considering a small town in Montana. It would violate Southwest's non-compete with Mother Theresa. She agreed not to go into the airline business, and Southwest agreed not to do charity work.