Looking for feedback on KMMU vs KTEB

Fblowjets

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We go to TEB all the time. It appears to be getting worse with all the runway closers, LANNA always being closed as a departure point. I am looking at using KMMU instead. Does anyone have any problems operating out this airport? KHPN is out of the question. Does MMU fall under the same controllers and issues?

Thanks
FB
 

AA717driver

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We go to TEB all the time. It appears to be getting worse with all the runway closers, LANNA always being closed as a departure point. I am looking at using KMMU instead. Does anyone have any problems operating out this airport? KHPN is out of the question. Does MMU fall under the same controllers and issues?

Thanks
FB
I think when there's a SWAP going on, any airport out there is hosed. Maybe MMU would allow you to sneak out but I doubt it--those TMU guys are pretty cagey. ;)

We did EWR a lot but there you get stuck in the CAL pushes.

MMU is probably worth a try, though.

TC
 

guido411

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My ATC buddy (JAX) says when they're given in-trail spacing req's for NY area the following are included:

KJFK
KEWR
KLGA
KTEB
KHPN
KMMU
And several others

It would stand to reason when outbound in-trail spacing is bumped up that LANNA is LANNA regardelss of which airport you depart from.
 

Apeman

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Guido,

Your spot on! LANNA is the point that backs up everything for those airports. Have spent numerous hours in the hold pad waiting for our slot time!
 

Rythm3

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I would say from my experience at the 2 airports, you may be better off at TEB. I'm pretty sure MMU and TEB use the same departure gates, and if LANNA is shut down at TEB, it will also be shut down for MMU. Additionally, I've been told that for every 3 launches off of TEB, MMU may get 1.

The bottom line is, when it seems like the NY airport that you are at sucks at that particular time, they are all sucking at that same time.
 

BoilerUP

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SWF/ISP and a helicopter into the city for your pax ;)
 

PMVULB AvMgr

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SWF/ISP and a helicopter into the city for your pax ;)
Don't now about SWF, but ISP is outside Class B airspace and doesn't even have delays during lousy wx, including pouring rain.

Drive to NYC outside rush hour is about 1 hour - during rush hour don't bother, you're looking at possibly 2 hours - twin engined chopper runs around $4k for the trip to midtown Manhattan.

You can save that on the amount of flying you're not doing as well as cheap fuel prices, and depending on which FBO you choose, no ramp/parking fees either. PM me if you need further info on where to go there.
 

AA717driver

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ISP CAN be a problem. We were trying to get out one night with a line of storms approaching NYC and got the "forever" ground stop.

We re-filed over HTO-ACK then back west. It turned out we got a re-route HTO-RBV and were able to turn back west way before we got to HTO. Tops were below 430 so we were easily able to climb out over the weather.

SWF is far enough north to use different fixes, I guess.

TC
 

blzr

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Smaller runway at MMU, but we have never had a problem getting in or out of there. Nice FBO and not nearly as crowded as TEB.
 

PMVULB AvMgr

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ISP CAN be a problem. We were trying to get out one night with a line of storms approaching NYC and got the "forever" ground stop.

TC
I truthfyully don't see the issue here - would you WANT to take-off and go directly into "the line of storms approaching"? A ground stop in this case makes perfect sense to me, but the typical stops at TEB, MMU and the entire NY area are based on airlines getting favored treatment from controllers. If it's one biz jet into TEB or five airliners into EWR, guess who gets priority - hint, the segment of our industry that gives controllers rides!!!!
 

say again

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I truthfyully don't see the issue here - would you WANT to take-off and go directly into "the line of storms approaching"? A ground stop in this case makes perfect sense to me, but the typical stops at TEB, MMU and the entire NY area are based on airlines getting favored treatment from controllers. If it's one biz jet into TEB or five airliners into EWR, guess who gets priority - hint, the segment of our industry that gives controllers rides!!!!

You should stick to being on the management side....clueless. Did you see the weather, did you know his route, aircraft capabilities, etc? Routes are limited out of ISP...only way to go is east to go west. Granted delays are not as bad as KTEB, but they can be quite lengthy. SWF is a better alternative, very rarely any delays, nice facilities, and drive is compoarable (minus much of the LI traffic).
 

PMVULB AvMgr

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You should stick to being on the management side....clueless. Did you see the weather, did you know his route, aircraft capabilities, etc? Routes are limited out of ISP...only way to go is east to go west. Granted delays are not as bad as KTEB, but they can be quite lengthy. SWF is a better alternative, very rarely any delays, nice facilities, and drive is compoarable (minus much of the LI traffic).
A thousand pardons - CAPTAIN! I apologize for adding my two cents to the conversation; how could I know more in my 35+ years in the industry, after all, you've got a whole 5500 hours in the air!
 

semperfido

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My personal NYC airport preferences:
1. HPN
2. EWR

Then all the rest. SWF always last choice as too far away.
 

say again

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A thousand pardons - CAPTAIN! I apologize for adding my two cents to the conversation; how could I know more in my 35+ years in the industry, after all, you've got a whole 5500 hours in the air!

What is your point with me having 5500 hrs?? You must assume that I'm only a pilot...incorrect assumption. I know you work for ExcelAire (beautiful FBO btw), and your goal is to bring in business (I've read plenty of your posts to figure that out), but it's a false statement to say that ISP immune to the lengthy delays. How can you say that they are? For 35+ yrs, and being based at ISP, you should know this.
 

golfkilo

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I would say from my experience at the 2 airports, you may be better off at TEB. I'm pretty sure MMU and TEB use the same departure gates, and if LANNA is shut down at TEB, it will also be shut down for MMU. Additionally, I've been told that for every 3 launches off of TEB, MMU may get 1.

The bottom line is, when it seems like the NY airport that you are at sucks at that particular time, they are all sucking at that same time.
You guys are dead-on! All departure/arrival fixes to & from NY metro area have in-trail restrictions depending on traffic, time of day, planet alignment, etc. You may experience a greater delay from MMU since traffic demand is greater at TEB. Yeah, it's supposed to be first come, first served, but you all know how that goes.
 

gutshotdraw

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My personal NYC airport preferences:
1. HPN
2. EWR

Then all the rest. SWF always last choice as too far away.
EWR? EWR? Immediate random test Fido.

I love being number 26 for departure during a bank time. And they ALWAYS want to go during a bank time.
 
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