Looking for CFI's with 200+Dual Given

[b757driver]

Nosehair

With all due respect, there is a saying "pay peanuts, get monkeys". The "professional" flight instructors you get for this might not be exactly what you are looking for and if they are expected to teach JAR guys, better watch out - you could find yourself in a situation where your students know more than the instructor!

Also, instructing is not just about how well you fly/building hours/what you can teach, it's also about close rapport with a customer/student and you really need several skills for all of these traits. I doubt very much that someone who is willing to do all this for $10/hr is going to have all these attributes. But...I may well be wrong.

At any rate $10 is pretty insulting - bartenders get paid more than that and I'm sure others can think of plenty other entry-level jobs that are way above that level.

For the record, I have done "professional" flight instructing @ two commercial flight schools (not flying clubs - there is a difference) - one in Europe and one in US both of which paid far more than the $10 and that was more than 10 YEARS ago!! It seems like we are going backwards here, folks!!! One more thing, if the instructor is only going to be paid $10/hr and I presume that is going to be taxed, the student is paying for the plane rental plus instructor time, are they going to do "reduced" rates for the aircraft or is this going to be a nice little profit for the training organization utilizing cheap labor?!!! You do the math. Might as well get Indonesian or Chinese instructors to come over here and start teaching if that is the plan. I'm sure THEY would do it for $5/hr or less, maybe even minimum wage.......

 

[English]

Geez...When I was a flight instructor (late 90s) I worked at a company that was completely bare-bones, teaching European students to fly twins. I never heard of anyone being paid that low of wages! I made $25 an hour, more than I made once I had supposedly hit the big time at American Eagle.

We had an instructor once who tried to undercut the rest of us by lowering her rates to $15 an hour if it was in a twin. We pressured her as a group and her rates went right back up to the posted rates for the school.

You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to whore out your flight instructors, and preying on pilots who are trying to make a living.

 

[Timebuilder]

Entry level...

One of the stories I covered in a newscast was the trouble that a certain fast food franchise was having in hiring workers near Harvard. Seems they had to offer at least $10.50 in order to get anyone to agree to work there.

That was in 1982, my friends.

$10 an hour for a flight instructor? Hello?????

 

[b757driver]

Maybe that's why he's looking?!!!!

Last couple of posts really tell the picture.

 

[nosehair]

Thanks, boys and girls, keep those cards and letters comin' in...I am getting a real education here...I had no idea...

 

[jayme]

I freelance instruct on the central coast of California. Now I know cost of living here is high, so that might explain why I can charge $50 an hour. However, there is no reason instruction can't go for $35 an hour in the midwest.

If you charge an appropriate rate, customers can respect that. Whether it's real or percieved, students feel that by paying a fair price, they will get a good product. If they have the option of paying $10 an hour or $50 an hour, a lot will go with the higher rate because they feel that learning to fly safely is more important than saving $1000. By paying 30 or 40 an hour, you'll attract good instructors, and not whore out the employees.

 

[mizzouguy]

Nosehair, I am a proffesional flight instructor and I would starve to death at what you are paying. If you want quality people you have to pay quality wages. I love to teach and obviously don't do it for the money but 10 bucks an hour is a crime. I like the peanuts for monkeys quote.

 

[JediNein]

One flight instructor at my base airport commands $100 an hour and has people lining up to pay that rate. That's over 10,000 hours dual given and over 20 years as a flight instructor.

The next tier is $75 per hour. These folks run their own businesses so they get their full amount but have to pay overhead.

Next are the 3-5 year CFIs at $50 per hour. It's 50/50 employees and freelancers. The pay rate is anywhere from $20 to $45 per hour or revenue hour.

Then the wannabes and time builders and rest of the pack at $35 per hour and below. The pay rate is minimum wage for revenue hours to $15 per revenue hour. There's even one CFI that will "instruct for free" in his airplane.

Why would anyone give up unemployment checks for $10 an hour before taxes? (Yah yah, flying, flight instruction, working instead of being on the dole...)

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[nosehair]

Tsk, Tsk,...my,my,my,my,my!! I didn't know my original post (inquiry) would cause such a get-your-back-up stir!
I thought I had backed up and withdrew the offer, or at least admitted my ignorance of current money-exchange in the market out there. I guess my school is more of a secret than I thought. We are in a quiet out-of-the-way place. Which is also still relativly cheap living expenses. And truthfully, I did not expound on the per hour rate after training, or any of the details.
I recieved no responses as to those points, but have only seen the barrage of indignation for even suggesting such a wage.
Didn't mean to do that, guys....but, since I did, it is an education in human behavior to me.
A good Instructor is always Learning.

 

[Timebuilder]

Wonderful.

Now, all that remains is to educate those who hire flight instructors.

 

[b757driver]

I guess we can ALL learn from this.

It's the same deal when an airline (or any company for that matter) continually advertises open positions or makes repeat ads over a short space of time. What does that tell you? Probably that there are not many takers and they are having difficulty getting the right people. And why is that?

For example, an overseas airline is really having a hard time getting pilots to interview with them and had placed numerous ads on various aviation job sites. Not only is the pay poor for what it entails, but also the candidates have to pay their own air fare out plus their own relocation costs. But wait, there's more...you also have to pay your own housing and transportation - all in a foreign country. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is NOT a good deal. Pity, because the airline seems to have nice equipment but they are not prepared to get the "best". Bottom line, you would have to be pretty desperate to even get out of bed to fill out the app for this position. So, the employer will continue having recruiting problems until he can figure it out.

Seems to me as the industry starts turning around the boot will soon be on the other foot, with candidates calling the shots and cheap labor will be a thing of the past - @ least until the next recession! It's a pity so many companies are so short-sighted and have no vision beyond their current bottom line. With a few changes, it's relatively easy to create a win-win environment - look @ the real successful companies - the ones who take care of their employees. In aviation, there are not many of these or so it would seem.

Maybe employers need an education in not only how to hire the best but also how tokeep your employees. The message is clear: if you do not value what should be your strongest asset, then do not expect your business to thrive.

 

[Mickey]

It's $35-50/Hr. in the RIC Va area for a "professional" instructor and about $25-35/Hr. for a "hobbiest" instructor. There is an obvious difference in what you get for your money. You can't even get a golf lesson or your lawn mowed for $10/Hr. I wonder what kind of a flight instructor you could get. I would'nt trust my loved ones flying with them. Good luck!

 

[mizzouguy]

Well nosehair where we live is listed as the cheapest place to live in the us and once again someone would starve on what you would pay. And if thats all you pay your pilots I cant imagine what you would pay for maintenece because parts cost just as much anywhere. Scary thought

 

[AV1ATRX]

I didn't realize that Myrtle Beach was a "quiet, out of the way place." If you meant Conway, then you haven't bought property there recently or tried to find an apartment. And those apartments on-campus don't count. There ain't nothin' cheap about that rent!

As an aside, I hope business improves there. As it stands, it is a ghost of it's former self and needs much improvement before it can be a more well-known, and more importantly, well-respected school.

 

[b757driver]

Just to put this all into perspective, I was browsing the want ads in my local paper the other day.

The jobs that quoted pay rates of $10 were ALL entry-level, NO experience required and barely HS graduate. In other words, you did not need ANY special skills and anyone could do them. An instructor for $10 an hour - what does that tell you? Go figure!

Also, I looked at the local community college. They do not have an aviation department (yet) part-time adjunct teacher in basic math for the princely sum of $170 an hour no, I'm not kidding! Probably did a couple of hours every other day and took home more P/T than most instructors do in a month.

Whichever way you look at this, it is a joke.