Long/short call Reserve systems

[flyguppy]

For anyone out there at a carrier with a long/short call reserve system, could you please post a quick synopsis of provisions of that system?

Specifically, how long is your long call, and are there any restrictions on early morning departures, etc.

Thanks............

 

[AMRCostUnit]

At AA on Reserve you are either in a RAP (Reserve Availabiliy Period) which is Short Call. "Reasonably Availably via ground transportation" is what the contract says. You can get away with 2-3 hours to get to the airport.

A RAP is where you are released from duty for 8 hours prior to the beginning of your RAP to be rested. AA never did this until after the LIT accident and some pressure from certain individuals within the pilot group.

For example we can have guys on 0500, 0800, 1000, 1400 and 1600 RAP's. 8 hours prior to your time you are free from call. At the start of your RAP you have to be able to complete a trip within 14 hours or else you are not legal. That is why they have the different times. At 1400, the 0500 guy only has 5 more hours of duty so he wouldn't be legal for a trip that FINISHED past 1900. They would use the 1000 or 1400 guy.

If you are not placed on a RAP then you are on Long Call which means you will get 12 hours notice for a trip.

The big fight over here is that International (International and Domestic are separate divisions) pilots are not placed on any RAP's. They are pretty much on short call 24/7. So there are alot of problems of guys going to bed at 2300 and getting called at 0130 for a 10 hour Deep South trip and going fatigued (we have a fatigue policy from the LIT accident too) because they don't rested enough to be safe. If they were on a RAP that began at 0001 then they could at least try to sleep during the day because they know that they vulnerable to such a trip.

I have not worked much under our new system but I think I covered most of the highlights. I know others are out there ready to correct me. Our reserve system is not good at all. They have taken seniority out of the equation. The Reserve Guidebook is 47 pages long! It's a PDF and I could send it to you if you want.

Unit

P.S. Guppy, you have a nice long list of Boeings there. Wasn't the 777 nice? Where'd you do your time on it?

 

[flyguppy]

Hey Unit.

I'm at good ol' (sarasm inserted here) United. Flown everything we have, cept' for the whale. Yes the 777 was a very nice machine. Has gone VERY senior here now though, since they started working the narrow Captains 90+ hrs month. I'd still be on the triple, if I could hold it.

Thanks for the rundown. UAL is going to test a short/long call system, and I'm just trying to get a feel of what others have.

Thanks again.

 

[aa73]

Hope you guys don't copy our system. Here's one for ya, the contract says, "Long call is the DEFAULT status for domestic reserves." LMAO!!! What they really mean is, short call is the default status 9.9 out of 10 times. Long call has no rhyme or reason, they just assign it the day before to whoever they want - seniority doesn't matter. For the record, not one person got long call this month so far. What a joke.

Hope you guys get a better one than ours!

73

 

[LearLove]

At U/MidAtlantic we have "regular reserve" which is like long call and "short call" reserve which is a 2 hour or 90minute call out.


"Short call" is either from 4am to 6 pm or 10am to 12am (14 hour duty / 10hr rest). Short call guys don't get used much. When I was based in PHL where I live I was 50 min from the airport and loved the 4am to 6pm short call. I'd sleep till 10am each day and then get up an mess around the house until 2pm or lay around my parents pool all afternoon. If I didn't get a call by 2pm I was pretty much off the hook and would head out to the local airport and hang out with the other airport bums, flight instruct, fly a burnt out CFI's traffic watch shift or do something else.

On short call I flew about 20 hours (about 4 days) per month, enough to have alittle fun and not be at work so much that rest of the crapola gets you down. It was a blast, can't understand why it doesn't go senior seeing as alot of PHL based guys live in the area. Maybe its because you only get 75 hr/pay on reserve. If I could only have this sked with Capts pay I'd be doing cartwheels.

Also note from above that I said the short call time is 90min or 2 hours. I really don't know what the call out is. At MDA we have a combo of Eagle and Mainline U contracts but nothing is written down (they say the reserve here is straight from the mainline contract). I been told 90min to 2 hours and 90 min to the parking lot and 30 to get from the lot to the crew room. Nobody knows, its like a free-for-all here, I don't think anyone cares also.

Regular Reserve or "long call" is a rolling period and again I don't know the actual call out. I've been told 9 hours, 12 hours, and 16 hours. Like I said, its a free-for-all. It seems that sked uses the long call guys to cover the stuff left in open time that nobody picks up. They divvy out the left over open time between 12pm and 3pm each day for the next day. So (95% of the time) if your on long call and your number comes up (combo of seniority and how many hours you've flown that month) you'll get a call around 1pm to 3pm for a trip the next day. Usually if your the first to get called and say there are 3 trips open they will give you a choice of the 3 then the next guy chooses one of the remaining 2 then the next guy gets whats left. On long call you fly about 1.5 to 2 time more than you would on short call (just my exp. and observation).

Hope it Helps

BTW where would a guy at UAL be on the list if he was hired in Nov 1978?

 

[TV9Driver]

TWA had a great long call/short call system. When you started reserve, you were automatically on long call (16 hour call out). Until crew scheduling called you, you stayed on long call. When they called you to notify you that you were going on short call, you had 16 hours to be within 2 1/2 hours of the airport. Once on short call, you remained on short call until you were used for a trip or came up on your days off. <sigh> good ole days.......

 

[LearLove]

Same here, they can switch you from long call to short call, but have to give you the call out time to get to base.

Give or take the reserve lines are usually divvied up 1/3 long call. 1/3 short 4am to 6pm and 1/3 10am to 12am. Some months though they come out with way less long call and more short call, it doesn't sit well with the pilot group.

 

[HalinTexas]

ATA:

Short (RA) = 2 hr report. 14 days off per mo.
Long (RB) = 12 hr report. 12 days off per mo.
Hotel Reserve (RH) = 30 min. to the lobby of Co. paid hotel. Never used that I'm aware of.

RAP as spoken above is 12 hrs/day. Mandated by FAR clarification. Max. domestic duty day is up to 13:30, scheduled, 15 hours actual, depending on report time. Hawaiian and Int'l flying is higher. RB can be up(down)graded to RA up to 3 days at a time.

Open time not picked up goes to RB's first, subject to restrictions. Open time and reserve availability is shown via crew website. Trips are assigned well in advance of call out period. I sit RB in DFW and can easily commute to MDW within 12 hours. I've only been burned once. Had to ride AMR through ORD. It was Christmas day, had to be de-iced on a clear day in DFW, and wait 30 min. for a gate in ORD. I was docked some pay, but that was it. We have a pretty good commuter policy, that I could have taken advantage of if given the chance.

 

[AA717driver]

aa73--Reserve sucks but AMR has raised that (or is it lowered?) to a new level.

They are running so short that everyone is on a RAP. That means within 2.5 hours from call out to ops. The "long call" and "reasonably available by surface transportation" is a joke. Scheduling expects you to be within 2.5 hours regardless (even though the company refuses to put anything in writing).

I lived 4 hours away by car and I got my butt chewed (but never called into the office) a couple of times because I drove down.

Whatever you do, don't copy AA's reserve system--unless you are fat on pilots...

ATA's seems like a pretty liveable system. JMO.TC

 

[C-150ETOPS]

flyguppy,

What year was the current bottom UAL Captain hired?

At AA, bottom CA is about 15 years.

Thanks

 

[Green]

At Awa long call is a 12 hour call out. I believe there is a staffing formula that at least 15% of total reserve pilots must be on long call. The short call is a 2 hour call out. Twelve days off in a normal month and 13 in a 31 day month. The way we have it set up is that you don't have to answer your phone but you have to let scheduling know that you are aware of your trip at least 3 hours prior to show time.

 

[flyguppy]

flyguppy,

What year was the current bottom UAL Captain hired?

At AA, bottom CA is about 15 years.

Thanks

Junior Captain here is somewhere around the 8 year mark. That's pretty close, but just an estimate.

Regards.

 

[Saabslime]

Also at AWA, if you're on long call, you are the first to be used. I tried the system out last month and flew everyday except 2 versus short call where I'm used approx 40% of the time. I don't commute so I'll definetely be going back to short call. Although I did do 10 hours better than guarantee on the long call.......................................money, or time at home???

 

[flyguppy]

BTW where would a guy at UAL be on the list if he was hired in Nov 1978?

Would put you around #375. Senior enough to hold whatever.

 

[aa73]

aa73--Reserve sucks but AMR has raised that (or is it lowered?) to a new level.

They are running so short that everyone is on a RAP. That means within 2.5 hours from call out to ops. The "long call" and "reasonably available by surface transportation" is a joke. Scheduling expects you to be within 2.5 hours regardless (even though the company refuses to put anything in writing).

I lived 4 hours away by car and I got my butt chewed (but never called into the office) a couple of times because I drove down.

Whatever you do, don't copy AA's reserve system--unless you are fat on pilots...

ATA's seems like a pretty liveable system. JMO.TC

Yeah I can attest to that... I flew 75 hrs in Jan and 80 in Feb (reserve guarantee is 73.) They are so short that a lot of guys time out towards the 25th of the month (max is 85). Gee how about some recalls...

The 2.5 hr is new to me, never heard about it. It once took me 4 hrs to get to base and I never heard a thing.... As far as I know scheduling honors the "reasonably available by ground" rule.

I agree, don't copy AA's system....

73