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Long Island Sound LR-35 Crash

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Well, I can tell you that another Lear 35 went down a few years ago into Groton as well. No survivors in that one. Part 135 repositioning for pick up. They went around after coming in hot and hotdogged it with a 90 degree bank at low altitude and brought the flaps up inadvertantly.
 
It has been very foggy here all day. Reports on the local news say 5 on board, 3 survivors. They say it landed .5 mi. short of runway. Pax were headed to Foxwoods.


KGON 022256Z 10005KT 1SM -RA BR BKN003 OVC006 18/18 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP104 P0000 T01830178
KGON 022159Z 13004KT 1SM -RA BR BKN003 BKN007 OVC016 18/17 A2984 RMK AO2 P0000

[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 022156Z 15003KT 2SM -RA BR BKN005 BKN016 OVC047 18/17 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP105 P0001 T01830172[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 022056Z 17005KT 3SM -RA BR FEW001 BKN050 18/17 A2983 RMK AO2 RAB48 SLP101 P0000 60000 T01830172 56009[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021956Z 19006KT 3SM BR FEW001 BKN050 19/17 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP102 T01940167[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021856Z 17008KT 2SM BR BKN001 19/17 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP105 T01940172[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021845Z 19007KT 2SM BR BKN001 20/18 A2985 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021803Z 21006KT 2SM BR BKN001 21/19 A2985 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021756Z 19007KT 2SM BR BKN006 20/18 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP109 T02000183 10211 20178 58004[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021656Z 20007KT 2 1/2SM BR BKN006 19/18 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T01940178[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021556Z 27003KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC008 21/19 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T02110189[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021524Z 18005KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC008 19/18 A2987 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021459Z 24005KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC010 21/18 A2987 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021456Z VRB04KT 3SM BR BKN015 BKN021 21/18 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T02060183 57005[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021403Z 23005KT 3SM BR BKN015 BKN021 21/19 A2987 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021356Z 20005KT 5SM BR SCT015 SCT021 21/18 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP115 T02060183[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021303Z 00000KT 6SM BR FEW006 OVC015 21/19 A2988 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021256Z 00000KT 2SM BR FEW006 OVC015 20/18 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP118 T02000183[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021203Z 00000KT 2SM BR FEW006 OVC023 18/17 A2989 RMK AO2[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KGON 021156Z 00000KT 2SM BR BKN004 OVC023 18/17 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP119 60000 70002 T01780172 10178 20161 51007[/FONT]
 
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Amish RakeFight said:
Well, I can tell you that another Lear 35 went down a few years ago into Groton as well. No survivors in that one. Part 135 repositioning for pick up. They went around after coming in hot and hotdogged it with a 90 degree bank at low altitude and brought the flaps up inadvertantly.

Hey amateur boy,

How about you develop some skills commensurate with the aviators who perished at Groton. THEN you can come on here with your false and hasty generalizations.

Jarrod Katt was twice the pilot you'll ever be.

Condolences to the families of those two pilots killed. Anybody from on here?
 
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Easy Boys!!!!

It always sucks when our fellow brothers move on and take their final flight. It does not matter if it happened by accident or by their own miscalculations, they are still missed. Now Amish's statement is consistant with the NTSB final report, so lets just leave it at that.
 
Lear Wanna Be said:
Easy Boys!!!!

Now Amish's statement is consistant with the NTSB final report, so lets just leave it at that.

No, it's not. He included some details, but missed/doesn't understand all the factors. Read the posted link, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them here. Sorry to get my panties in a wad, but I know a lot more about Learjet aviating in general, and the mishap PIC specifically than you ever will.

Don't like it? C'est la vie!

PS- You're right about one thing though, Presidentin' sure is hard.:laugh:
 
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GVFlyer said:
Does anyone know the circumstances of this crash?

There are more divers looking for pilots, than pilots looking for divers.

GROTON, Conn. (AP) -- A Learjet registered to religious broadcaster Pat Robertson crashed in Long Island Sound while flying in heavy fog Friday, killing both pilots, authorities said. All three passengers escaped without serious injury.

Robertson was not aboard.

The twin-engine Learjet 35 went down a half-mile short of the runway at Groton-New London Airport. Authorities said the passengers were able to get out on their own and were pulled from the water and taken to the hospital with minor injuries.

Preliminary information showed that the plane may have hit an approach light mounted in a cove near the airport, said Christopher Cooper, a spokesman for the state Department of Transportation.
http://customwire.ap.org/icons/spacer.gif


The plane was registered to Virginia-based Robertson Asset Management. The company is owned by Robertson and is separate from the Christian Broadcasting Network, spokeswoman Angell Vasko said.
She said Robertson was not on the plane and rents it out because he uses it infrequently.

"We're still trying to figure out who was on the plane," she said. "It's not Dr. Robertson or (anyone) related to CBN or related to Dr. Robertson's individual businesses."

The company has a leasing agreement with International Jet Charter of Norfolk, Va., which chartered the plane Friday, Vasko said.
http://customwire.ap.org/icons/spacer.gif


Mark Ousley, International Jet's sales and marketing director, declined to comment.

The Coast Guard said the plane took off from Norfolk, Va., and stopped in Atlantic City, N.J., to drop off two passengers before heading to Connecticut. Cooper said those on board were believed to be headed to a golf tournament at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Mashantucket.

The bodies of the two victims were pulled from the water by the Coast Guard, Capt. Peter Boynton said.

Rachel Waszkelewicz said she heard the crash and ran out of her house and onto her dock, but it was too foggy to see, so she called out to a group of lobstermen.

"Everybody jumped in their boats," she said. "You could hear voices. I don't know if it was from the plane or if it was boaters yelling to them."

Dick Sawyer, who lives in the neighborhood, said, "You could barely see past your hand at the time." Five minutes later, he said, the fog lifted just enough to reveal the jet in the water.

The names of the people on the plane were not immediately released, but authorities said the three survivors were men in their 50s.

Federal investigators believe fog contributed to a similar crash in the same area in June 2005, when a Cessna 182 crashed into the sound, killing four people.

In August 2003, a Learjet 35 trying to land at the airport crashed into three houses before hitting a bridge. The two people aboard were killed. Investigators blamed the crash on pilot error.
 
FN FAL said:
There are more divers looking for pilots, than pilots looking for divers.

That's where Survival Systems USA is headquartered.
I'm sure their divers were out helping.
 
gkrangers said:
A very steep bank, at very low altitude, and the flaps came up..stalled...crashed, right?

Way more complicated than that. Tell you what, I'll write an article about it. Look for it sometime towards the end of June, middle of July.
 
JJET44 said:
That's where Survival Systems USA is headquartered.
I'm sure their divers were out helping.

Looks like the CG was doing the diving, according to the first article posted in the begining of the thread:

A Coast Guard dive team searched the water for the missing pilots. A state police boat, Coast Guard helicopter and Department of Environmental Protection crews also joined the search.

"Our divers are in the area right now to determine if conditions are appropriate for them to attempt a rescue dive," Vance said, adding that rain and storms had been reported in the area.
 
LJDRVR said:
Way more complicated than that. Tell you what, I'll write an article about it. Look for it sometime towards the end of June, middle of July.
I'd like to hear your expert take. I flew the air plane with the same co-pilot two weeks before they crashed. I also personally talked wit some of the line guys in Groton who saw the accident. I also bet with my 6500 hours in lears and personal experience with the pilots and airplane involved my take well be alot more accurate than yours.
 
GVFlyer said:
Does anyone know the circumstances of this crash?
Looks like this news story is saying that landing lights were struck during the incident:

The rescued passengers were able to get out of the plane on their own and were taken to a hospital for minor injuries, state police spokesman Sgt. J. Paul Vance said.

The plane went down a half-mile short of the runway at Groton-New London Airport, authorities said. A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said the jet hit at least one of several approach lights mounted in a cove near the airport during an instrument approach and landed upside down in about 4 to 8 feet of water.
 
LJDRVR said:
Hey amateur boy,

How about you develop some skills commensurate with the aviators who perished at Groton. THEN you can come on here with your false and hasty generalizations.

Jarrod Katt was twice the pilot you'll ever be.

Condolences to the families of those two pilots killed. Anybody from on here?

Ohhhkay. Cool your jets guy.:rolleyes:

First off, I was acquiainted with the pilot and especially the copilot Ken Hutchinson for several years and had flown over 100 hours with him at AirEast. I knew him on a personal level AND attended the funeral.

Let's just say, I know quite a bit about him, his flying skills and his attitude.

Of course it's unfortunate, but maybe you need to read the report if you think what I'm saying is coming out of left field. They did some very unsafe things. Period. I care not to get into a debate about this. Someone posted a lear 35 crash at GON and I stated that one had crashed there a few years ago.

Oh and, you must be quite an individual to assess ones flying skills over an internet message board. LOL:laugh:
 
LJDRVR said:
Way more complicated than that. Tell you what, I'll write an article about it. Look for it sometime towards the end of June, middle of July.

You can make it as complicated as you want. In fact, write an article about it if you're so inclined, full of jargon to really complicate it. But what transpired, transpired. What gkrangers said is correct. The plane came in fast, missed the runway and they tried to swing it around at a very low altitude at a very high bank angle, close to 90 degrees with the flaps incorrectly set. This would not have been executed in such a manner were there passengers on board.
 
cabby said:
I'd like to hear your expert take. I flew the air plane with the same co-pilot two weeks before they crashed. I also personally talked wit some of the line guys in Groton who saw the accident. I also bet with my 6500 hours in lears and personal experience with the pilots and airplane involved my take well be alot more accurate than yours.

Amen.
 
cabby said:
I'd like to hear your expert take. I flew the air plane with the same co-pilot two weeks before they crashed. I also personally talked wit some of the line guys in Groton who saw the accident. I also bet with my 6500 hours in lears and personal experience with the pilots and airplane involved my take well be alot more accurate than yours.


I thought we passed 3rd grade. C'mon, we're all better than the "my story is more accurate than your story."
 
Gonna have to guess ILS 5 as the only other approaches are non-precision.....GPS/VOR rwy 5 and GPS/VOR 23
 
The plane crashed inbound to runway 5, in fact from what friends told me (I used to work at GON) it might have taken out a pylon or two on the MALSR. Groton has had a lot of fatal crashes in the last 3 years, almost all of which have been a bad mix of WX and pilot error.
 

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