Logging time question?

[Freight Dog]

Siucavflight... you're doing it correctly - if you're in the left seat and flying - log PIC. If you're in the right seat as a PM/PNF, log SIC.

 

[Freight Dog]

Siucavflight... you're doing it correctly - if you're in the left seat and flying - log PIC. If you're in the right seat as a PM/PNF, log SIC.

 

[say again]

Yes, but however this does not apply as no one is signing for the aircraft, we are a part 91 operator.

Aha, in that case, PIC for PF and SIC for PNF

 

[avbug]

Well you have actually not posted anything in black and white, everything that you have posted leads me to believe that what your position is is incorrect. But hey I guess that you are entitled to your own opinion.

Here's the thing; you weren't given an opinion. You were given the letter of the law in black and white; it's not open for debate, and there's really nothin to debate. There's no position to take; it's all spelled out. Not only that, but you were given the FAA Chief Legal Counsel letters of interpretation on the subject (of which there are many).

You are at a position in your career in which you are flying a G-V, and yet do not know how to log flight time? You claim this thing, and wish to be taken seriously?

It's hard to believe that anybody in the position you claim to be could possibly be that lazy, or that dense. This can only lead to the conclusion that you're playing a game, albeit a poor one.

If you can't understand a simple, short, and to the point regulation, there's little hope of you understanding your cockpit. If indeed you truly are this ignorant of such a basic thing, you should quit know while you're still behind.

 

[siucavflight]

Yet no one else seems to have an answer. And most seem to disagree with your answer. No where in the reg is it black and white.

And since when does not being able to decipher a convoluted regulation have anything to do with the type of pilot someone is?

 

[K.V.]

Ok... Black and White. There's only two instances in the regulation that alow you to log PIC all of the time (both pilots can log PIC).

1. while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate. This does not apply to you and your opperation.

2. all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor. This does not apply to you or your opperation.

Black and White. Both of you cannot log PIC at the same time. End of discussion!

This thread was drilled into the ground 4 pages ago!

 

[siucavflight]

Ok... Black and White. There's only two instances in the regulation that alow you to log PIC all of the time (both pilots can log PIC).

1. while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate. This does not apply to you and your opperation.

2. all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor. This does not apply to you or your opperation.

Black and White. Both of you cannot log PIC at the same time. End of discussion!

This thread was drilled into the ground 4 pages ago!

I agree with you, and yet you have avbug calling me stupid, dense and incapable of flying the gulfstream because I do not see where the regs say that you can both log PIC.

I have realized that the almighty avbug is wrong, and instead of admitting it he calls me stupid.

 

[AC560]

I agree with you, and yet you have avbug calling me stupid, dense and incapable of flying the gulfstream because I do not see where the regs say that you can both log PIC.

Avbug posted the relevant interpretations a couple pages ago. He along with several other people have given you the answers and the supporting regulations/opinions. But as a final go because I enjoy reading these threads every 6 months when they come up.

The aircraft requires a crew of 2 and both are typed/current/etc.

Pilot A is PIC as per part 1 (his name is on flight plan). He can log all time as PIC whether he touches controls or not.

Pilot B is flying the leg but not PIC per part 1. He can log all the time as PIC for which he is sole manipulator of controls.

Thus if the pilot listed as PIC on the flight plan does not touch the controls, both pilots can log PIC for the flight legally.

If however the pilot who is acting as PIC (Pilot A) under part 1 also is the sole manipulator, then the pilot who is not acting as PIC (Pilot B) under part 1 and is not the sole manipulator can only log SIC time.

So the answer is depending on how you structure the responsibilities on the flight and who touches the controls determines whether or not both pilots are logging PIC or one of the pilots is logging SIC.

This is the same logic which allows a pilot and a safety pilot to both log PIC time in a C172. The safety pilot agrees to PIC under part 1 and the pilot flying is the sole manipulator. If the safety pilot does not want to be PIC under part 1 then he is entitled to log SIC time (even though a C172 is not a multi crew aircraft).

 

[siucavflight]

Thank you AC, and as I have stated at my company the guy whos name is on the flight plan sits in the left seat, he is the one that does all the flying. The guy in the right seat does everything else, the guy in the left seat logs PIC, and the guy in the right seat logs SIC. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

That is what I was getting at, avbug was posting a reg that clearly stated that with the operation that we are doing both pilots can not log PIC, and yet he was telling me that we could because of the reg.

So in the en avbug was wrong, I will hold out for an apology, however I doubt that will be coming.

 

[AC560]

So in the en avbug was wrong, I will hold out for an apology, however I doubt that will be coming.

I read most of Avbug's posts and don't see anything he wrote or posted which is incorrect. You two girls feel free to fight but I think he put up a lot of good information for you.