Logging time question?

[2000Easyguy]

It's absolutely mind boggling that so many people can be so wrong so often on such a simple subject. Moreover, one that's printed so plainly in the regulation. It's not a debatable topic, and it only requires lifting a finger to help one's self to look it up.

You needn't worry about what anyone else thinks, what so-and-so does, or how someone believes it ought to be. The regulation is very, very clear.

Logging pilot in command time is NOT the same as acting as pilot in command. Only one person may ACT as pilot in command at any given time. More than one person may LOG pilot in command at the same time.





No, but that's really irrelevant with respect to logging the time in accordance with the regulation, as acting as PIC is an entirely different subject than logging flight time, or logging PIC.

Acting as sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft for which the pilot is rated does entitle him or her to log PIC.



That is entirely irrelevant with respect to Part 91 corporate operations. "Designation" by the company has no bearing on who can log what. You may be confused with Part 121 or 135, in which the person designated by the company as the PIC remains the PIC for the entire duration of the flight. However, even in those cases, one may still legally log PIC when acting as sole manipulator of the controls, if one is rated in the aircraft (category, class, and type).

The political implications of logging such time, with respect to an interview, are irrelevant when considering what one can and cannot log. One who flies for a 121 or 135 operation may well be advised to avoid logging PIC unless he or she is the acting PIC...but again, that's another subject.

For such a simple subject, there seems to be many questions asked regarding this subject. Guess we're just all dummies. Even your reply comes across as convoluted.


Your flying, current and qualified, log PIC.

 

[siucavflight]

Your flying, current and qualified, log PIC.

Are you saying that both guys are logging PIC? Or just the guy flying that leg?

 

[BoilerUP]

Does a part 91 operation legally require an ATP??

No.

Ultimately it is your logbook; log what you want to log, especially if you are logging it in accordance with the FARs. However, be ready to justify everything you write in there in front of an interviewer, FAA Inspector, NTSB panel, administrative law judge, and civil jury.

Call me conservative, but in my two-captain, Part 91 operation I only log as PIC that time when I am PF and meet the Part 1 definition (resposibility and final authority for operation & safety of flight). When the other guy is driving, he is the Part 1 and 61 PIC and logs it as such.

 

[avbug]

Why would you attempt to keep a logbook based on how you think a future employer might classify your time.

I've had a lot of interviews over the years, and I've seen a lot of ways to classify time. I've had some interviews in which my four-engine large piston airplane time was lumped in the same classification as Cessna 172 time...all piston lumped together. I don't try to log according to what one particular employer might want to see ten years down the line; I log in accordance with the regulation.

So far as logbooks, I've had government agencies that spent hours going through them in detail, and other employers under 91, 121, and 135 who didn't look at them at all.

What you should log isn't the same as what you can log, and only you can decide what you should and shouldn't log. If you elect to restrict your logging in a way more conservative than the regulation, you may do so. You're only legally required to log that flight experience used to show compliance with the regulation; recency of experience, and experience necessary for any certificate, privilege, or rating. Beyond that, you aren't required to log the time at all.

 

[siucavflight]

So avbug, please tell me. Can both of us being typed and have ATPs log every leg as PIC being part 91?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

If you're going to stay there for a long time, then your 61.58 sign off is all you need.

 

[BillJBrake]

lol, gucci driver and you're not sure how to log your time.

sure you shouldn't be wearing your ipod/backpack/frosted hair and flying for MESA?

 

[siucavflight]

lol, gucci driver and you're not sure how to log your time.

sure you shouldn't be wearing your ipod/backpack/frosted hair and flying for MESA?

What? What is a gucci driver? Do you have an answer for me? It is a gray area.

 

[semperfido]

some things just don't matter. every now and and then I meet someone that has a logbook.

 

[siucavflight]

some things just don't matter. every now and and then I meet someone that has a logbook.

Ha, I know what you are saying, but I am honestly pretty young, with pretty low time, so I want to at least log the 1000 hours of turbine PIC before I quit logging every flight.

 

[semperfido]

just my twisted sense of humor- ignore it

 

[siucavflight]

just my twisted sense of humor- ignore it

No problem!

 

[J.Otto]

asterisk next to the SIC entry...

 

[ksu_aviator]

Just to add my 2 cents...

Are you logging what you are doing? If you are designated SIC, most likely you are not making the decisions and so logging PIC isn't a true representation of your experience. Now, let's say you get a job as a PIC in that aircraft and for any reason at all, something gets bent on the A/C. The insurance is likely to take a deeper look into your background and if they find that you've misrepresented your flight time, they may come after you personally for the damages.

As a certified commercial lines insurance agent, I can verify that this is 100% possible. The insurer is completely within their rights to hold you responsible and lacking the top litigation attorney in the country, you'll probably lose.

 

[NGT]

To get to 61.51 you first have to pass 1.1

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

And unless you are flying a single pilot certified aircraft you must apply the 1.1 definition to 61.51 because it is the only FAA definition of PIC.

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

And unless you are flying VFR without filing a VFR flight plan, YOU designated the LEG PIC when you filed the ICAO FAA flight plan which uses the 1.1 definition.

C/ (PILOT) INSERT name of pilot-in-command.

There is no sole manipulator or grey area for multi crew aircraft PIC. If your name is not on the flight plan you are NOT PIC regardless of who is actualy flying the aircraft. The flight plan is the Part 91 version of a 135, 125, 121 Flight Release. It's not grey or fuzzy at all ever.



G550 Limitations:

1-01-10: Minimum Flight Crew​

Minimum flight crew required is pilot and copilot

Citation Bravo Limitations:

MINIMUM CREW​

Minimum Flight Crew for All Operations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Pilot and 1 Copilot

Hawker 800 Limitations:

Minimum Flight Crew​

The minimum crew is two pilots.

If you are flying a King Air 200 part 91 VFR with no VFR flight plan filed and you are both 61.58 current THEN sole manipulator is the PIC.

Although your company or insurance may require an ATP the FAA does not. So don't log PIC Instruction and say you have an ATP because it in no way applies to you although you can instruct if you have a valid and current Instructor certificate for the operations.