Logging time question?

[AC560]

No..The easiest way is to say, "your leg, you're PIC", under part 1.

As long as that doesn't contradict the name of the person listed on the flight plan as PIC you are correct.

Once again, part 1 says NOTHING about whos name is on the flight plan.

For the third time I agree with this. Who is on the flight plan though defines who is PIC under part 1. Most commercial flights are done on a flight plan. You can't put Tim as the PIC on the flight plan and then jump in the plane and say Bill you will be PIC under part 1 today.

 

[AC560]

Putting your name on a flight plan does not depict who the actual PIC is. I've filed flight plans as an SIC, using my name.

See 91.153 (the IFR flight plan under 91.169 adds to this base requirement).

§ 91.153 VFR flight plan: Information required.

(a) Information required. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person filing a VFR flight plan shall include in it the following information:
(1) The aircraft identification number and, if necessary, its radio call sign.
(2) The type of the aircraft or, in the case of a formation flight, the type of each aircraft and the number of aircraft in the formation.
(3) The full name and address of the pilot in command or, in the case of a formation flight, the formation commander.

I will agree that it is very common to do what you say. Legally though it is a potential problem.

 

[LJ45]

Putting your name on a flight plan does not depict who the actual PIC is. I've filed flight plans as an SIC, using my name.

I understand when doing that you should list the PIC in the remarks section.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

You claim low time, yet you have 5K listed.



5K with a type in a GV is not so uncommon, granted most have at least 1K+ in turbine PIC, if not more an/or time in the right seat.



Something doesn't add up here. How'd you get hired as a captain on a GV with seemingly no experience in them, let alone LESS than 1,000 hrs. of turbine PIC.

Your stories seem to fluctuate quite a bit. Maybe "Lynxman" can come to your defense.

Have fun. You've got enough information in this thread to arrive at a conclusion and make a decision. Hoepfully.

I agree. Something is fishy.

This gentleman claims 5000 hours but doesn't know how to log flight time.

This gentlman has had 3 jobs, in the last year, which means he has had his logbook gone over by 3 Chief Pilots, but he doesn't know how to log flight time.

This gentleman claims 5000 hours, but just got his ATP with his present job.

If this gentleman flew for American Eagle for 2 years, 2000 hours to log max. 3 months in the Middle East, 300 hours. Lets give him 600 hours at his present job.

This gentleman accumulated 2100 hours, WAY more than AE required, but he doesn't know how to log flight time.

Would you fly with him?

 

[Fly91]

It's absolutely mind boggling that so many people can be so wrong so often on such a simple subject. Moreover, one that's printed so plainly in the regulation. It's not a debatable topic, and it only requires lifting a finger to help one's self to look it up.

You needn't worry about what anyone else thinks, what so-and-so does, or how someone believes it ought to be. The regulation is very, very clear.

Logging pilot in command time is NOT the same as acting as pilot in command. Only one person may ACT as pilot in command at any given time. More than one person may LOG pilot in command at the same time.

Its also mind boggling how poeple, like you, are so ignorant to some things. The FAR doesn't lay down every single rule for pilots to follow. There are loopholes and exceptions to almost every reg.

Two pilots, in a two pilot certified aircraft, CAN log PIC. Part 91 anyway. If instruction is being given by one of the type-rated and ATP rated pilots to the other type-rated pilot, they can both LEGALLY log PIC. This was sent to my flight school in a memo from the FAA legal division in Oklahoma as an interpretation when we all were arguing about this issue long ago.
Part 135 pilots can only do that on dead legs AFTER a Part 135 trip has concluded.

I won't even get into how a pilot sitting in the back seat of say a Cessna 172 can log PIC time when two other pilots are up front.

Kind of like when all of us got our PPL, that check-ride with the FAA/DE was our first PIC time to log (except our solo time whcih was all time as sole manipulator of the controls), and it was also PIC for the examiner.

Actually, 4 pilots sitting in a multi-engine prop plane can ALL log PIC. There's a ton of hour building going on like that, sharing the expenses, cheap multi-engine time.

Figure that one out.

End of argument

 

[LJ45]

Its also mind boggling how poeple, like you, are so ignorant to some things. The FAR doesn't lay down every single rule for pilots to follow. There are loopholes and exceptions to almost every reg.

Two pilots, in a two pilot certified aircraft, CAN log PIC. Part 91 anyway. If instruction is being given by one of the type-rated and ATP rated pilots to the other type-rated pilot, they can both LEGALLY log PIC. This was sent to my flight school in a memo from the FAA legal division in Oklahoma as an interpretation when we all were arguing about this issue long ago.
Part 135 pilots can only do that on dead legs AFTER a Part 135 trip has concluded.

I won't even get into how a pilot sitting in the back seat of say a Cessna 172 can log PIC time when two other pilots are up front.

Kind of like when all of us got our PPL, that check-ride with the FAA/DE was our first PIC time to log (except our solo time whcih was all time as sole manipulator of the controls), and it was also PIC for the examiner.

Actually, 4 pilots sitting in a multi-engine prop plane can ALL log PIC. There's a ton of hour building going on like that, sharing the expenses, cheap multi-engine time.

Figure that one out.

End of argument

popcorn time

 

[Fly91]

This is a good point, I have my ATP, but we operate the Gulfstream part 91, therefore no ATP is required. My chief pilot said that both pilots can log PIC, but he did not really have a reason other than "you just can". I have been logging my trips on the Gulfstream as all SIC when I am in the right seat, but I am wondering if I could be doing it as PIC, I hope it never matters as I hope to stay with this place for a long long time, but just in case I do have to interveiew somewhere I do not want to be questioned on it.

My friend got hired with Turnberry to fly the Challenger 604. He had like 210 hours total flight time in recip airplanes, like 10 hours multi-engine in a Duchess. They typed him and he started flying. He asked me if he should start logging PIC. I said hell no, log like 200 SIC first. Just so later on if another company looks over his book it won't look bad, even though he's typed and certified by the FAA to act as captain Part 91.
He got type-rated on the Global like 1 year later and immediately started logging PIC in that plane.

Your Chief Pilot is wrong, you can't BOTH log PIC, just because its Part 91. But you CAN both log it if one is acting as an instructor and gives you some instruction. As long as he has an ATP.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I won't even get into how a pilot sitting in the back seat of say a Cessna 172 can log PIC time when two other pilots are up front.

An unamed flight school with a ME time building program used to (perhaps still does) have a pilot in the left under the hood (sole manipulator PIC), a safety pilot in the right seat (Acting PIC) and a MEI in the back seat logging PIC as an instructor.

Three pilots logging incredibly questionable PIC. Especially the MEI who's probably asleep in the back.

 

[Fly91]

popcorn time

Another good one for ya.

I was acting as co-pilot (type-rated) during a Fed ride for the flight engineer (747). 2 Feds were on board and both agreed to the question I asked. Unless those to Fed's are morons they said even if a type-rated co-pilot for the company that has NOT yet done a captain upgrade course or a Fed ride or IOE completion to be fully signed off as a captain for the company....they can still log PIC on that plane if they are the sole manipulators of the controls on a non-revenue leg.

Thats how myself and alot of other guys have PIC on that plane. Tons of ferry flights and maintenance trips.

I do what the FAA says, not what companies think the regs are.

 

[Fly91]

An unamed flight school with a ME time building program used to (perhaps still does) have a pilot in the left under the hood (sole manipulator PIC), a safety pilot in the right seat (Acting PIC) and a MEI in the back seat logging PIC as an instructor.

Three pilots logging incredibly questionable PIC. Especially the MEI who's probably asleep in the back.

3 pilots being comm-inst-multi-cfi-cfii-mei
1 pilot comm-instr-multi-cfi-cfii (no mei yet)

Pilot under hood- sole manip, receiving instrument training
Pilot behing him- giving that instru instruction
Safety pilot right seat- safety pilot
Pilot in the back of him- giving him multi instruction

True story. Its being done everywhere.