LOGGING HOURs QUESTION

[nerdpilot]

First, I hope to God you are not paying for this time in the right seat of an airplane that requires only one pilot even with passengers on board.............unless insurance requires it. On the empty legs you SHOULD log it as PIC time if you have a commericial multi instrument rating but keep good records of this small sliver of time in your career. Hopefully you will upgrade to PIC and all of this time will blend in anyway and by the time you are on your second or third logbook........no one will notice or care. I keep hearing about what the airlines consider PIC time but who the hell wants to go to an airline nowadays and whos to say that is going to be your next step????? You may want to go to a corporate or freight department and all they care about is you telling them you have 500 pic multi to fill their insurance requirement so they can fill a seat. Bottom line............you can legally log it PIC if you are flying the 91 legs in a Cessna 402 assuming you have your commercial multi. Every place you will apply to will give you the heads up on what they consider PIC..........some will allow it and some wont. The airlines especially the commuters are the ones you will most likely have the most explaining to do.

 

[ftld81]

Thanks for the replies guys,
...

 

[siucavflight]

You can log it however you want. But if you are logging your SIC time as PIC in a 402 dont expect to be offered a job flying for anyone or any airline, especially if they ask to see your log book.
If the 135s ops specs call for an SIC, and you have a 135 SIC checkout then you can log SIC, if you do not have 135 PIC checkout(also need an ATP) do not even think about logging it. However as stated before you may log PIC on any of your 91 legs.

 

[RJLoser]

Last time I checked a 402 did not require a Type rating. If you are flying a 135 leg and are SIC qualified you are logging SIC. If you are a 91 leg you can log PIC. You have a mulit-engine rating that is all that is required to operate a 402 PIC.
Someone said it before...a future employer will see through you logging PIC as a qualified SIC in the aircraft. There is a difference between being PIC and being legal to log PIC. don't imagine it will take that long to move to the left seat of a 402.

 

[Nevets]

You can legally log it as PIC but it wont count if airlines are asking for PIC as defined in Part 1.

 

[ftld81]

correct..there's a difference between logging pic..and acting as pic...the SIC can log PIC if they are the sole manipulator of the aircraft, even with the assigned PIC...both are logging PIC

 

[brokeflyer]

correct..there's a difference between logging pic..and acting as pic...the SIC can log PIC if they are the sole manipulator of the aircraft, even with the assigned PIC...both are logging PIC

that is correct.

I think what others are talking about pertaining to a type rating is this, the guy with the type rating logs PIC all the time. If the fo has no type then he can't log pic regardless if he's flying the plane.

If both arer typed then for a 135 only one can log time as pic because before a flight a PIC must be named and they remain PIC for that flight. If both are typed and the flight is 91, then the "FO" can log pic if he is flying the plane.

simple right?

 

[transpac]

that is correct.

I think what others are talking about pertaining to a type rating is this, the guy with the type rating logs PIC all the time. If the fo has no type then he can't log pic regardless if he's flying the plane.

If both arer typed then for a 135 only one can log time as pic because before a flight a PIC must be named and they remain PIC for that flight. If both are typed and the flight is 91, then the "FO" can log pic if he is flying the plane.

simple right?

It's simple, but not as you describe it. Logging PIC time has nothing to do with the regulation governing the flight, except that a ATP can log as PIC all command time requiring a ATP cetificate. If the co-pilot is rated to fly the airplane i/a/w Part 61 and is driving, he/she can also log PIC time.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's simple, but not as you describe it. Logging PIC time has nothing to do with the regulation governing the flight, except that a ATP can log as PIC all command time requiring a ATP cetificate. If the co-pilot is rated to fly the airplane i/a/w Part 61 and is driving, he/she can also log PIC time.

Transpac is correct, as that person would be logging time as so-manipulator

 

[brokeflyer]

It's simple, but not as you describe it. Logging PIC time has nothing to do with the regulation governing the flight, except that a ATP can log as PIC all command time requiring a ATP cetificate. If the co-pilot is rated to fly the airplane i/a/w Part 61 and is driving, he/she can also log PIC time.

thats exactly what i said.....

I was refering to an SIC with and without a type rating. An SIC who is rated can log PIC for the tme he "flying" the plane. I see now where i had a slight typo in my previous post.

The PIC that is named for the flight per the regulation logs THE WHOLE FLIGHT as PIC because he is responsible for the outcome. Regardless who is flying.

you can't log PIC without a type rating if your sole manipulator.....you log SIC time.

 

[ftld81]

.

Correct,...if a type rating is required..which a 402 doesnt reaquire...u just need com/mult/inst and ur good to go....

therefore an SIC can log PIC time as the sole manipulator of the aircraft.

ps...anyone know of any outfits in south florida that will hire me?..260tt here..60 multi

 

[brokeflyer]

Correct,...if a type rating is required..which a 402 doesnt reaquire...u just need com/mult/inst and ur good to go....

therefore an SIC can log PIC time as the sole manipulator of the aircraft.

ps...anyone know of any outfits in south florida that will hire me?..260tt here..60 multi

there's about 400 flight schools....try one of those.

 

[flipper66]

Here's another related but somewhat odd situation:

If you're SIC in an aircraft requiring 2 pilots (SIC not type rated, but checked out and signed off as Part 135 SIC), and want to use the time for the requirements of 61.159(a)(4) 250 hours PIC or "SIC performing the duties of PIC while under the supervision of PIC"

according to the FAA (Part 61 FAQ's with Chg #21 10/12/2004) the intent of that statement in 61.159(a)(4) is for when the SIC is the Pilot flying, AND "acting" as the PIC (crew management, breifings, flight plans, fuel loads, etc). The FAA FAQ goes into more detail, but thought it was worth mentioning...

Note they indicate (same document) that the PIC should endorse their logbook as follows:

"Performed duties as a supervised PIC in accordance with 61.159(a)(4)" [signature], ATP#12345678

 

[avbug]

While the "FAQ" is not official FAA policy and at times incorrect (and often opinion without official sanction), it is in this case correct in substance.

There's still a clear distinction between performing the duties of PIC, and acting as PIC. If one is recording the flight time for the purposes of meeting 61.159(a)(4), then one should also record details regarding the PIC for verification. (The PIC need not sign the logbook).

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

How to scam an hour...The big question is simple: When an accident or incident occurs with your airplane, who is going to be the official PIC and talk to the FAA ?